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Old 08-01-2020, 02:32 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
What's really interesting is that PEI, where the original Charlottetown meeting that drew up a lot of the rules, from my understanding, wasn't even in the first batch of provinces.
There was a reason for that, which escapes me right now. But it wasn't long before PEI joined Confederation. Rather like Vermont, the 14th state, eh?

Quote:
Are you referring to the British North America Act....
This--the British North America Act, 1867. When I, or most of us lawyers who study such things, I suppose, refer to the "Constitution," this is what we're referring to. The "Charter" has been a part of the Constitution since 1982. It's tricky, but if you think of the Constitution (structure of government and division of powers between the feds and provinces) and the Charter (rights of citizens) as two documents wrapped up in one (much like the US Constitution constitutes the form of the US Government and then provides rights to states and citizens through the Bill of Rights), you'd be correct. I'm being very brief here, and there are many nuances, but I'm sure that you get the idea.
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Old 08-01-2020, 12:23 PM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
There was a reason for that, which escapes me right now. But it wasn't long before PEI joined Confederation. Rather like Vermont, the 14th state, eh?
Vermont became a republic for one reason; to not be part of New Hampshire or New York, which both claimed her. Ethan Allen even made some noise about joining Lower Canada, or was it already Quebec? When Vermont was admitted as a state that destroyed any reason for the Vermont Republic. Other than creating a pretty good constitution, and the first to ban slavery, it had barely set up the machinery of government during its existence from 1777 to 1791.

There exists an opera house that straddles the border at Dorset, VT and Stanstead, QC. There is a line on the floor where there is a border. You can enter from either country but have to leave to that country. When I went I entered and left from the Quebec side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
This--the British North America Act, 1867. When I, or most of us lawyers who study such things, I suppose, refer to the "Constitution," this is what we're referring to. The "Charter" has been a part of the Constitution since 1982. It's tricky, but if you think of the Constitution (structure of government and division of powers between the feds and provinces) and the Charter (rights of citizens) as two documents wrapped up in one (much like the US Constitution constitutes the form of the US Government and then provides rights to states and citizens through the Bill of Rights), you'd be correct. I'm being very brief here, and there are many nuances, but I'm sure that you get the idea.
I totally get the analogy, though the Charter of Rights is more like a piece of Swiss cheese than a rights-declaring document should be. The phrase ...except as may be consistent with a democratic society in the preamble strike me, as an American, to be almost as problematic as the "notwithstanding" clause. Though if I understood more about Canada I might get that distinction.
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Old 08-01-2020, 12:56 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
98,562 posts, read 97,019,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolefan34 View Post
As an American, I would say the histories most taught in public schools were-

1. USA
2. England
3. France
4. Ancient Greek
5. Ancient Roman
6. Ancient Egyptian
7. Spanish
8. Russian/Soviet
9. Mexican
10. Canadian

Everywhere else was secondary.
What public school system were you in, that taught Russian/Soviet history? And when were you in school there? I've never heard of that being taught in public or private schools. And Canadian history, really? I mean, besides that they sprang from a British colony? And British/English history? It sounds like you were in some kind of special private school, not a public one. Or a history magnet school, or something.
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Old 08-01-2020, 12:59 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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I'd say Mongolia has both an "obvious" history and an obscure one. Everyone knows they took over the entire known world in their day, right? But aside from Genghis Khan and the Golden Horde, and maybe something about China's Yuan Dynasty, nothing is known about Mongol history in North America. I don't know if much is taught about it in Europe, either.
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Old 08-01-2020, 02:28 PM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
What public school system were you in, that taught Russian/Soviet history? And when were you in school there? I've never heard of that being taught in public or private schools. And Canadian history, really? I mean, besides that they sprang from a British colony? And British/English history? It sounds like you were in some kind of special private school, not a public one. Or a history magnet school, or something.
For us, and I'm going by 4th through 12 grade, the ranking would be:
  1. American (general 5-8, Constitutional Law and African American in 11th and 12th);
  2. South American (4th grade and in Spanish class, one of my fourth grade social studies projects,in fall 1966 was on Marajo Isalnd,Brazil and in 5th Grade,fall 1968 Tierra del Fuego);
  3. Chinese (mostly 6th grade);
  4. India (4th and 9th grade);
  5. Continental Europe, mostly Holy Roman Empire (10th grade); and
  6. Native American (mostly Inuit, 4th grade).
That is the best my poor memory can reproduce. I self-studied Canadian history and picked up a fair amount of Russian history in college.
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Old 08-01-2020, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
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The question actually is: Obscure to whom?

Occidentals might not know anything of the history of Cambodia, but the Cambodians know it very well, as to their neighboring countries.

Any nation doesn't even need a written language to know their history. A people's history is very important to the people; it's what keeps them together as a group.

Obscurity is only when a stranger fails to inquire. There's always someone who knows their people's history, so it can always be discovered if a stranger just asks to learn it
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Old 08-02-2020, 03:10 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
3,254 posts, read 2,726,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I totally get the analogy, though the Charter of Rights is more like a piece of Swiss cheese than a rights-declaring document should be. The phrase ...except as may be consistent with a democratic society in the preamble strike me, as an American, to be almost as problematic as the "notwithstanding" clause. Though if I understood more about Canada I might get that distinction.
No, you have to understand the Oakes Test, which is the balancing test against Charter s. 1. I agree; it is difficult for American lawyers to understand. But there is plenty of Canadian caselaw that illustrates how useful the limitation is.

Also, you're not talking about the preamble to the Charter; you are referring to Charter s. 1.

Be well, friend JBG.
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Old 08-02-2020, 07:22 AM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
No, you have to understand the Oakes Test, which is the balancing test against Charter s. 1. I agree; it is difficult for American lawyers to understand. But there is plenty of Canadian caselaw that illustrates how useful the limitation is.

Also, you're not talking about the preamble to the Charter; you are referring to Charter s. 1.

Be well, friend JBG.
In the U.S. we have the equivalent. Strict scrutiny is applied to racial discrimination or a First amendment challenge which means that the legislation must be very narrowly tailored towards a permissible objective. In reality almost no legislation survives. By contrast economic regulation uses the rational basis analysis, which means that almost nothing is unconstitutional. "Intermediate" scrutiny has evolved more recently for gender-based and other similar discrimination. The U.S. in effect has the Oakes test. Still I think it is better if judicially crafted than in the text.
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Old 08-07-2020, 07:17 PM
 
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From a western point of view, the most well known one’s are the US, UK, Germany, France, Italy and Spain.

As far as being obscure, you could throw in any number of small nations that lack a visible international presence. The Pacific island nations come to mind.
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Old 08-08-2020, 05:31 AM
 
2,566 posts, read 1,384,812 times
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Regarding teaching history above: in VA, two of the required four standard history courses in high school include:

World History and Geography I - from ancient times to 1500
World History and Geography II - 1500 to contemporary times

So yes, they will be taught Russian and Soviet history. I doubt VA is alone in doing this.

Last edited by webster; 08-08-2020 at 05:40 AM..
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