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1. A resistance to guilt and debate, private censorship of books and movies, and blatant denial all do occur in Japan, unfortunately increasingly after the 1990s. But to put it in a fuller picture, numerous books conveying Japanese war crimes such as Nanjing Massacre have been published from 1970s, when China was silent and the US was ignorant; some of them, including Nanjing Massacre, were written in school textbooks and the government acknowledgement; thus some rightist group began movement to eliminating them from textbooks; and not-interested-in-these-matters publishers do some self-censorship of books and movies not because they support revisionist views but because they don't want to get involved with mess.
It depends on people how to evaluate the balance between those who face up dark past and those deny in Japanese society. But statement that “Japan as a nation” is denying its past war crimes is clearly false. You cannot say this point is a mere *detail*, for Iris Chang herself chose the word “forgotten” for her subtitle. Of course, criticizing an erroneous and unbalanced book on Nanjing Massacre is never equal to denying Nanjing Massacre itself. Far from it.
FYI: Japanese textbooks on Nanking Japanese Textbook Treatment of the Nanking Massacre
They may seem to be written too simply, but you should notice that these same textbooks mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki as simply as they mention Nanking. (Sorry I couldn’t find English translation of Japanese textbooks on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. You can search yourself.)
2. Outside this forum there is no consensus that “the bombing was needed to end the war.” It was probably needed to end the war at that timing and under that condition that we now know. But when an atomic bomb was dropped in Hiroshima, the Japanese leaders were already discussing WHEN and UNDER WHAT CONDITION to end the war. Certainly, the bombing saved some Japanese and American (and Chinese, because of earlier end of the war). But it is well open to question whether the lives saved were more numerous than the lives lost. Even you think those saved were more numerous than those lost, you may also think whether it was necessary to bomb Nagasaki three days after Hiroshima, whether one atom bomb may have had the same effect on Japanese government’s decision-making, and whether Nagasaki had the purpose of testing a different type of A-bomb than Hiroshima.
3. Good news to you. Most of Japanese people would not even think about blaming you personally for Atomic bombs unless you take initiative by telling them that the Japanese war crimes occurred due to “yourself, and your culture.”
You don’t need to worry about Chinese perception of atom bombs either. 99.99% of the Chinese people wouldn’t blame you for dropping atomic bombs either, though some (if not all) of them may blame you for dropping ONLY TWO bombs. Dropping atomic bombs to Japan is a good thing simply because Japan is an evil nation and the Japanese are evil people. Whether it is good for Country A to drop an atomic bomb to Country B and whether the people of Country B are likely to have “national hatred” toward the people from the Country A are relevant but different questions.
4. Chinese censorship policy on internet often changes. Facebook was accessible before but is blocked now. But the change of CCP leadership later this year may loosen it. I think that’s why Mark Zuckerberg visited here. I imagine this forum was banned sometimes in the past, but it is certainly accessible now.
5. (probably not focused on the topic here) By the way, I think Communist Party is no longer controlling people’s thoughts here (probably they did in Mao era). If you sit on dinner table as an only foreigner among non-English-speaking Chinese people or surf Chinese internet forum, you can see that they are often freely criticizing the Chinese government for corruption, nepotism, media control etc. But unfortunately, when it comes to foreign relations or minority issues, many of them are more hawkish than their government. They CRITICIZE Chinese government for NOT *liberating* Taiwan by military force, for NOT *revenging* Japan, for NOT treating Tibetans more harshly. (compare: the worst kind of Japanese nationalists would glorify Japan’s past war, which is bad enough, but even they would never call for another war with China or US.) What do you think will happen if China becomes a democracy? Personally I much prefer a despotic but peaceful China (that is, China today) to a democratic but aggressive China.
Last edited by A Japanese in China; 03-31-2012 at 10:35 AM..
The Japanese deny the Bataan Death March, the casual beheadings and the INHUMANE treatment of American POWS's during WWII. They still have never apologized for Pearl Harbor either.
The Japanese deny the Bataan Death March, the casual beheadings and the INHUMANE treatment of American POWS's during WWII. They still have never apologized for Pearl Harbor either.
I was taught about the Bataan Death March as well.
FYI
May 9, 2009. The Japanese government apologized through its ambassador in the U.S. to former American prisoners of war who suffered in the Bataan Death March.
September 13, 2010. Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada apologized to a group of six former American soldiers who during World War II were held as prisoners of war by the Japanese, including 90-year-old Lester Tenney, a survivor of the Bataan Death March in 1942. The six and their families and the families of two deceased soldiers were invited to visit Japan at the expense of the Japanese government in a program that will see more American former prisoners of war and former prisoners of war from other countries visit Japan in the future.
The Japanese deny the Bataan Death March, the casual beheadings and the INHUMANE treatment of American POWS's during WWII. They still have never apologized for Pearl Harbor either.
You mean SOME Japanese deny the Bataan Death March. Usually Right-Wing groups and some ultra-conservative politicians. Hmmm, sounds familiar eh. (cough cough...America can't do any wrong..Republicans...Tea Partiers)...
Looking through this forum and seeing this kind of comments these days↓, I already understood that America is different from China. (I confess that I used to think that the average American citizen is nationalistic in the same way as the average Chinese citizen)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ByronicCoward
You mean SOME Japanese deny the Bataan Death March. Usually Right-Wing groups and some ultra-conservative politicians. Hmmm, sounds familiar eh. (cough cough...America can't do any wrong..Republicans...Tea Partiers)...
Also the most hilarious thing I've read on the other forums regarding this issue
"Yeah probably, but they invented anime and Godzilla so I give them a pass." (referring to amount of criticism Japan deserves for this whole boondoggle.
Of course, people all over the world should 100% excuse USA for everything that happened and may happen anywhere anytime, for Americans created Macdonald, Mickey Mouse, Starbucks, Star Wars and so on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ByronicCoward
Also the most hilarious thing I've read on the other forums regarding this issue
"Yeah probably, but they invented anime and Godzilla so I give them a pass." (referring to amount of criticism Japan deserves for this whole boondoggle.
1. A resistance to guilt and debate, private censorship of books and movies, and blatant denial all do occur in Japan, unfortunately increasingly after the 1990s. But to put it in a fuller picture, numerous books conveying Japanese war crimes such as Nanjing Massacre have been published from 1970s, when China was silent and the US was ignorant; some of them, including Nanjing Massacre, were written in school textbooks and the government acknowledgement; thus some rightist group began movement to eliminating them from textbooks; and not-interested-in-these-matters publishers do some self-censorship of books and movies not because they support revisionist views but because they don't want to get involved with mess..
And so we have reached an impasse, as we are starting to get to posters that are degrading the topic (typical "hit and run" posters) and I have pretty much said my peace. You brought up an interesting point however in that the typical american is ignorant about such events such as the attrocities in Nanking, as I admit we Americans are somewhat self-obsessed. However, this also brings up a certain nuetrality and objectivity in commenting on Nanking that you cannot find from either the Chinese or Japanese.
But of course, there are other attrocities committed by Japan during the war that involve Americans, and that must be considered.
As for the rest, I would like to debate the atomic boming of mainland Japan, but as I stated I consider it off topic, and arguably not even the same war as when the Rape of Nanking occured. Regardless, I have a tough time comparing acts of war (total war, in all it's brutality) to acts of peace (as, arguably again, the events in Nanking were performed to citizens of a capitulated city, or to surrendered soldiers). And also, it's been debated to extent in this forum, and everything I needed to say has been said by me or others. I do hate repeating myself. You are of course free to add to these topics or start a new topic on the atomic bombings.
Once again, your comments are appreciated. I am linking below to a few of many atomic bomb threads below (one of which ran to 50 pages, so you can see almost all the posters here exhausted the topic):
Books on Bataan you may find helpful in your search are "Bataan Our Last Ditch" by John Whitman and "Girocho" by Poncio and Young. Not a pleasant subject to read about, but will definitely open your eyes to what happened to our soldiers by the Japanese. The information in these books are consistent with information passed on to me by my father, a survivor of the Death March and three different Japanese prison/slave labor camps.
The overwhelming majority of the victims of the Japanese were not white (other than Allied POWs and a few civilians). Asian lives were seen as less important than white lives.
I'd like to know more about MacArthur's trials in the Philippines prior to V-J Day. The more I read about Doug, the more it seems like he was the most overrated Allied general of WW2.
One of the other factors was Americans saw German faces and they connected. They were your own villens. The Japanese had faces which looked alike and names which were hard to remember. And of course politics got in the way there too. And people were just plain tired of thinking about the war by then.
The major thing, though, was that so many times there was no real, legal style evidence. There was one island where diseases were tested largely on pow's. If they could have they would have prosecuted. The rate of fatality on captives was one hundred percent. But as it was approached, every prisoner was killed and the bodies burned, along with all records and the camp. They found a smoking ruin and dead bodies. None the less the island was off limits because the rats ran away and carried so many diseases it was abandoned.
The man responsible for it was known. But nothing could be done. In other instances, victums were so ill that by the time trials had come they were dead and all that was available was apadavids.
This was in a book, but I don't have it anymore. I've seen it in other materials, though. There was a window when the official occuptaion forces would arrive where McCarther had command. The local Japanes war criminals were known. They even had lawyers but the lawyers were given no time to have a defense. They were taken out and shot following conviction.
There are some, however, who lived then and feel that at least some got their due.
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