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Old 08-30-2012, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,767 posts, read 2,343,822 times
Reputation: 634

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post


Beware the false prophets saith the Lord...


You should be really concerned about all the false prophets
today who say the perverted, secularized Israeli state is the
fulfillment of Ezekiel 37... Israel's return to God's Holy Land...
when it is actually the fulfillment of Ezekiel 36, Edom's malicious
occupation of God's Holy Land.

[In case you didn't know this little tidbit of history... Edom, the
enemy of Israel, became "jews" en masse, in the 2nd century BC]


Ezekiel 36:5 this is what the Sovereign LORD says: In my burning zeal I have spoken against the rest of the nations, and against all Edom, for with glee and with malice in their hearts they made my land their own possession so that they might plunder



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Old 08-30-2012, 01:53 PM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,582,793 times
Reputation: 14621
Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
You should be really concerned about all the false prophets
today who say the perverted, secularized Israeli state is the
fulfillment of Ezekiel 37... Israel's return to God's Holy Land...
when it is actually the fulfillment of Ezekiel 36, Edom's malicious
occupation of God's Holy Land.

[In case you didn't know this little tidbit of history... Edom, the
enemy of Israel, became "jews" en masse, in the 2nd century BC]


Ezekiel 36:5 this is what the Sovereign LORD says: In my burning zeal I have spoken against the rest of the nations, and against all Edom, for with glee and with malice in their hearts they made my land their own possession so that they might plunder
Oh, so I shouldn't be concerned about you being a false prophet, just all the other false prophets, I see. Isn't the hallmark of the false prophet to attempt to justify their prophecy by pointing out that others are false prophets?
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,767 posts, read 2,343,822 times
Reputation: 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post

Isn't the hallmark of the false prophet to attempt to justify their prophecy by pointing out that others are false prophets?

A prophet of God will love God and obey God's commandments
and he will admonish God's people to love and obey God.

God's prophet, Elijah, executed the prophets of baal.



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Old 08-31-2012, 09:56 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,582,793 times
Reputation: 14621
Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
A prophet of God will love God and obey God's commandments
and he will admonish God's people to love and obey God.

God's prophet, Elijah, executed the prophets of baal.
Feel free to love God and obey His commandments, however, He is quite clear on what happens to those who falsely make claims in His name. The New Testament closed the door to further prophecy and revelation except through the Apostle's and their successors, which is the Church. That you would so freely deny these truths in written Scripture through the teachings of Christ and continue to make your claims is blasephemy.

On another note...this is the history forum. To accept anything you say on this topic requires many leaps of faith and is not verifiable. First, one must believe in God. Then one must believe in the Christian God. Then they must be a devotee of a sect that would support the idea that you could even receive a prophecy. Then you must be vetted to determine whether or not you are lieing, etc. At the end of the day, this forum deals in fact. You have no way to prove your legitimacy. I think your prosthletyzing would be better directed at the Religion forum where you may receive an audience for your "visions".

I've had fun pointing out the religious dogma inconsistencies and contradictions in your statements. However, like most who have their contradictions and conflicts of faith pointed out, you have doggedly remained devoted to that which you believe to be true. You are free to do so, as we are free to ignore you and draw our own conclusions about that which you claim to have experienced.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,767 posts, read 2,343,822 times
Reputation: 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post

I've had fun pointing out the religious dogma inconsistencies and contradictions in your statements.

The only inconsistencies and contradictions are in your mind.

You create a 'straw man', so you can knock it down.

I am not your 'straw man.'

I posted a brief personal note about a God-sent dream and it sent
you off on a tirade of accusations and personal attacks. Obviously,
you have issues with religion and people of faith that go far beyond me.



.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:39 AM
 
5,719 posts, read 6,434,321 times
Reputation: 3646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
I'm just trying to figure out the real causes of the collapse of the Soviet Union.

This is surprisingly hard to do due to everyone's own political viewpoint etc.

And I'm not just interested in the dry historical stuff - more the ideology/philosophy and economic sides of the issue.

Ok, for sure, I can see that Communism could be inefficient, but didn't the Soviets do rather well in the 50's and 60's?

and The Cold War - didn't the arms race bankrupt the country; but what if it had never occured?

any ideas?
It wasn't just the arms race bankrupting the country -- the entire eastern bloc by the late 70s was bankrupt and dependent on loans from the west. Their entire economic system of enforced shortages was inefficient. But that IMO has nothing to do with the collapse of Communism. Even without money Communism would have continued indefinitely. I believe that Gorbachev letting the Eastern Bloc go set the stage for the collapse, and devolving too many responsibilities to the Republics and letting them build bureaucracies was the coup de grace.
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:08 AM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,790,214 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
It wasn't just the arms race bankrupting the country -- the entire eastern bloc by the late 70s was bankrupt and dependent on loans from the west. Their entire economic system of enforced shortages was inefficient. But that IMO has nothing to do with the collapse of Communism. Even without money Communism would have continued indefinitely. I believe that Gorbachev letting the Eastern Bloc go set the stage for the collapse, and devolving too many responsibilities to the Republics and letting them build bureaucracies was the coup de grace.
I agree. Examples of North Korea and Cuba prove that communist regimes can survive economic problems indifinetely.
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Old 08-31-2012, 12:42 PM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,582,793 times
Reputation: 14621
Quote:
Originally Posted by king's highway View Post
The only inconsistencies and contradictions are in your mind.

You create a 'straw man', so you can knock it down.

I am not your 'straw man.'

I posted a brief personal note about a God-sent dream and it sent
you off on a tirade of accusations and personal attacks. Obviously,
you have issues with religion and people of faith that go far beyond me.
Not at all, I have an issue with people who claim authority and irrefutable fact based on visions they claim they received from God. I have no issue with religion or people of faith, only when they attempt, as you do, to force that faith upon others or inject it into entirely secular conversations and debates. You are free to have your faith and believe what you will, but you cannot expect to go unchallenged on the claims you inject into secular debate based on that faith. It was impossible to challenge your statements on anything but a religious ground, which I attempted to do. It was not creating a "straw man" to question the validity of your statements and 'vision' based upon the tenets and dogma of the religion you claim to speak a prophecy for, Orthodox Christianity.

Perhaps in future conversations on the history forum you can keep matters of personal faith and conviction...personal and limit your comments and statements to only that which is a matter of public knowledge and verifiable. For instance, mentioning Putin's religious faith and the facts that serve as evidence of such is perfectly fine as long as it is on-topic. Saying that God told you he was "His Anointed King" frankly, 'jumps the shark' and is better left on the forums dedicated to such discussions.
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Old 08-31-2012, 12:43 PM
 
1,725 posts, read 2,061,450 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
I have studies economics but it wasn't in any famous Russian business school. Sorry.
I haven't studied economics in Russia either

Quote:
OK. Salary of a grade school teacher and a cop in Moscow and in New York. Compare and come back, Ivan.
What does it have to do with the GDP - which is what you quoted?

Quote:
And how would you know that?
It may shock you, but "stone age Russia" also has prostitutes' websites

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Plenty of Russians in the West who ditched that miracle you paint here for greener pastures.
In 1990's...

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Mail order brides from Russia is a scam but you have to note that Russian are really desperate to leave the country.
... to live in a fairy tale, earning $1mln for nothing... Those, who want to leave Russia - leave. The numbers are incomparable to some European countries, like Germany.

Quote:
There are no website like this for Czechs or Hungarian girls. Just Russian.
If there is demand...

Quote:
What you had in Soviet Union was an economical utopia combined with political oppression, any model was better than this failed experiment...
"Utopia that worked"... Don't try to judge something you have no idea about.

Quote:
outdated industry
Then run to your nearest venture fund, open a state of the art factory in Russia, and crush all outdated competition. The government may even help you - both Russian and US governments, as they are both interested in such investments. You'll get rich overnight... or the VC will simply shake his head in disbelief, that he waisted so many minutes listening to a total... whatever he will call you

Quote:
It would take Russia decades to catcth up technologically
Every year Russia imports products, mostly industrial equipment, worth hundreds of billions dollars. A LOT of foreign companies operate here. What kind of technological catch up are you talking about?

Quote:
Cars and washing mashines luxuries in Europe?
When you see the kinds of cars common in Europe, the trash, driven by many Americans, doesn't look so trashy... And this doesn't speak badly of Europeans...

Quote:
Sure Soviet Union was such a miracle down to cheap food sold and processed in unsanitary conditions
You can only dream (or maybe can't do even that) about the quality of food as it was in USSR

Quote:
Such a heaven yet milllions were plotting how to get away and thousands did.
A result of political and economic crises.

Quote:
First of all Europe is not just big cities with excellent public transportation - plenty of people live in small towns where cars are a much a necessity as they are in the US.
Car ownership in EU is about one half of that in US. The use is even smaller, a lot smaller. You really can't compare car dependence in US and EU.

Quote:
I have not learned about them in Soviet Studies but some other class so they also told us upfront that most of these movements were either started or deeply infililtrated by KGB or MVD.
Police and federal police starting dissident movements? Are you serious?

Quote:
No. Propaganda machine was still well, only a little more subtle.
You don't know a thing... Shortly after the Perestroyka, the "capitalist West is rotting" propaganda was replaced with "we will all live as the Western upper-middle class" propaganda that led to the destruction of the Union.

Quote:
There is an uninterrupted lineage of rulers of Russia with KGB roots
Total BS.

Quote:
What did Goebbels say about a lie that if repeated long enough becomes the truth?
That's what you are doing. But it's an epic fail

Quote:
Goebbels was not on the right, he was a national socialist
He was on the far right - don't be an idiot.

Quote:
Ask Ukrainians.if they want to be under Russia's influence... nobody had to push anybody.
They want to be not just under the influence, but back inside Russia. Ukrainians are Russians after all. Plus people in RF are much richer than people in UR.

Quote:
So that give you the right to keep Ukraine subdued?
I really love such "Russia annexing Russia" statements

Quote:
Of course Russia has a plenty of natural resources but when it comes to its industrial output its GDP and GDP per capita it is way way behind Western European economies or even Japan and Korea. Russia is not rich. It is rich in resources but it is defintely not a rich country by any standard.
How about that standards:

Russia's industrial production is close to American.

Vladivostok (official pop. 600 thousand; real - up to 1 mln, including far surburbs) has just used a MASSIVE $40 bln federal investment - the city as a whole didn't even change.

Quote:
There would not be a Western Europe without Marshall's Plan
Somewhat slower rebuilding doesn't mean that it wouldn't catch up with the US.

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Orthodox Russia has been always very suspicious of Western world
Totally the opposite.

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the world revolves around Russia
The funny thing is that it is

Quote:
China is a much stronger competitor in XXI century than Russia.
China itself puts Russia above itself.

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At this point Russian GDP per capital is nowhere near that of Sweden or even Finland.
Much higher? I've shown you the estimate of Russian GDP - a conservative estimate. If you don't agree - fine, but please show some numbers, don't just mumble your gebbels propaganda.

Quote:
You did the same to Finns, Georgians, Poles, Ukrainians and hundreads of other nations that were part of Russian Empire and later Soviet Union. Conquest is simply the history of mankind.
I really can't go past that...

Russians conquering Russians.
Russians conquering part of Russia conquered by Poland shortly before that.
Russians conquering Georgians, who begged for acceptence to Russian Empire.
...
Oh, those evil Russians...

Quote:
And how did Soviet Russia, the biggest oppressor of the working class which in Soviet Union did not even havr a right to strike or independent unions, helped the lower class anywhere else????
Don't even say a bad word about Soviet unions - because it's almost like saying that Bill Gates can't afford a business class ticket.

Quote:
Europe has strong democratic traditions, Russia has none.
Russians lived under communism for like an eternity. And communism is perfectly democratic.

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What advanced technology came out of Russia in the past 50 years...
Aside from the military tech (required), space program, and sports Soviets were smart enough to not be the number 1 - because that's very expensive

Quote:
You are so funny erasure with your almost subliminal glorification of the Soviet system
No, it's you, who could be funny with all of your russophobia, if it wasn't so tired already.
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Old 08-31-2012, 12:45 PM
 
1,725 posts, read 2,061,450 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Actually you might be surprised, but a lot of Russians put Putin's actions within the lines of "what Washington's OBKOM ( using language of old Soviet times) is ordering him to do."

Russians consider that Moscow is ruled by Washington through economic means.
Nobody in Russia have such beliefs. The US State Dep agents are freaks, who call themselves "the opposition". Freaks like blogger Navalniy, Golos organization, etc.

Quote:
Ruth, when I'm saying that someone like Putin has to take responsibility of what happened in the 90ies, is because he was one of those people close to power, that plundered the country at that point. He was an inseparable part of it.
He wasn't. The problem is that he didn't take hard action, like Stalin before him. This is a controversial topic, because by going strongly against the system, Putin risked his position or even his life. I think that it was his duty to do this. But I'm way more aggressive than the average Russian.

Quote:
If you'd ask me circa 90ies what were my thoughts on parliament's rebellion, as the majority of Moscovites I didn't want to have any of it. The Soviet system was supposed to be gone, everything was supposedly moving smoothly to the "brighter democratic future" and those were nasty commies why tried to withstand popular democratic president.
It wasn't exactly like that. That was a revolution, not a coup de tat. By that time most people started to look not to the "bright new future", but to the "back in USSR". Soviet teddy bears were terrified by what neoliberals did. So much that god knows how many of them died fighting against cops and soldiers loyal to Yeltsin.

Russian media was totally under Eltsin's control. And I won't be surpised if US media took Eltsin's position.

Quote:
(So if Greece is complaining now about austerity, what was in cards for Russia as the result of those "economic reforms" - not even austerity, but bloody murder, literally.)
The history repeated - what happened in 1990's was so damned similar to WW2... Weapons changed... but not all of them - the main, propaganda, remained the same.
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