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Old 08-20-2012, 03:49 AM
 
Location: southern germany
43 posts, read 86,805 times
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I am a great history-freak from Germany.

In the last months i made a lot of research about the views of the former Allies after 70 years.

I am very astonished that i can find so many forums, homepages, discussions about the european theatre of war. On the other hand, the war in the pacific seems very less interesting to the people ( especially to the us ).

Any idea ?
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Old 08-20-2012, 04:17 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,110 posts, read 5,584,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyfromgermany View Post
I am a great history-freak from Germany.

In the last months i made a lot of research about the views of the former Allies after 70 years.

I am very astonished that i can find so many forums, homepages, discussions about the european theatre of war. On the other hand, the war in the pacific seems very less interesting to the people ( especially to the us ).

Any idea ?
The Pacific action were not large, they are more artificial than forced measures, but the less useful for the Soviet Union. Judge for yourself in a very short time many States simply gave up and bowed before Hitler's Germany. I would say that it is an interesting fact that Europe preferred to give his native land of the enemy than to fight and have a chance to win. For the most part with Fascism in the greater part of the war had to fight only one of the Soviet Union, the Soviet Union took everything you need to allies could landed safe and open the 2 front, and took upon himself a great number of divisions of the Wehrmacht.
The Soviet Union on August 8, 1945, declared war on Japan. After this, the rulers of Japan has become crystal clear that they have not only no way to achieve a turning point in the war, but became nonsense even a simple delay. At the meeting of the Supreme military Council on August 9, 1945, the Prime Minister Suzuki said: «the Entry today in the morning in the war of the Soviet Union puts us finally into a desperate situation and makes impossible the further continuation of the war». In his letter «To the soldiers and sailors» from August 17, 1945, the Emperor Hirohito, who was at the same time the Supreme commander-in-chief of Japan, said, «Now, when the war against the us joined the Soviet Union, to continue the resistance... means threaten the very basis of existence of our Empire.»
Soviet troops under the command of Marshal A. Vasilevsky for 24 days utterly defeated the Japanese army. They lost in the battles around 12,000 people, and the Japanese - 83700 killed, and prisoners - 594000 soldiers and officers and 148 of the generals. At the completion of the defeat of the Kwantung army were found not far from Harbin balances laboratories special «unit 731» and «Detachment 100», which were engaged in mass production and the means of delivery of bacteria of a plague, cholera and other diseases. Available ready-to-use bacteria «enough, according to one of the employees of «unit 731», for the destruction of all humane-society». «Bombs, filled with plague fleas, was scheduled to reset in the areas of Chita, Khabarovsk, Blagoveshchensk and Ussuriisk».
An interesting fact is that,Minister of war of the United States Stimson 2 July 1945 in the note by Truman my estimate of the prospect of war with Japan: «with the launch of the invasion, we have to... complete it even more brutal battles, than those that took place in Germany. As a result we will suffer huge losses and be forced to leave Japan». It was believed that only Americans can lose 1 million soldiers. The end of the war saw the American command in 1946 or even in 1947.

Last edited by GreyKarast; 08-20-2012 at 04:49 AM..
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:52 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,091 posts, read 82,447,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyfromgermany View Post
I am very astonished that I can find so many forums, homepages, discussions about the European theatre of war. ... Any idea ?
Most Americans have a European heritage, the entirety of western culture and history is based there, WW2 has tremendous level of research documentation available, the short term impacts on the world were felt by people who are still alive and have been alive contributing to the material since before the war, the shorter term impacts and now longer term impacts on world events are still being felt.
Quote:
On the other hand, the war in the pacific seems very less interesting to the people (especially to the us ). ... Any idea ?
Most Americans don't have an Asian heritage, or look to Asia for culture or historical cues, and still only relate to the region on the basis of current trade and manufacturing economics.
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:04 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
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Very true, Pacific action rather short and in intensity. What happened in Eurasia it is more intense period of history, and so it is natural that the discussions will be much more.
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 23,967,234 times
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The European theater operations were marketed as a "Crusade in Europe"..the title of Ike's memoirs. We were there to save western civilization, of which we were a part, from the perverse and evil Nazis. Noble cause.

In the Pacific theater it was simply a war of revenge. Japan attacked us, we went after Japan. The idea that we were liberating formerly democractic allies was not in play with the fuzzy exception of the Philipines, and even that was largely a matter of an egomaniac keeping a public pledge so as not to damage his reputation. So here we are talking about a not so noble cause...vengeance.

And race is certainly a huge factor in these perceptions. European theater...everyone is white. Pacific theater...we are fighting Asians who had established hegemony over other Asians. While we have evolved into more enlightened people who have a greater appreciation of non whites, back then the mentalties were cruder. The Pacific War was sold in the US via intensely racist propaganda which depicted the Japanese as little more than monkeys with guns.
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,087 posts, read 9,773,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyfromgermany View Post
I am a great history-freak from Germany.

In the last months i made a lot of research about the views of the former Allies after 70 years.

I am very astonished that i can find so many forums, homepages, discussions about the european theatre of war. On the other hand, the war in the pacific seems very less interesting to the people ( especially to the us ).

Any idea ?
There was somewhat related topic some months ago with respect tothe fascination with Hitler. Some posts addressed the U.S. side. Good reading .http://www.city-data.com/forum/histo...on-hitler.html

I recall a co-worker from many years ago commenting on the U.S. fascination regarding WW2 and Nazis. He was German, ex-Hitler Youth.... So the question has been around since the late 1980s.

I suggest it is the formation of our modern U.S. comes from WW2. World Power, Cold War is all most of us know and that came about due to WW2. Wars since have not been quite so clear cut in terms of good vs. evil so we reach back to an earlier era.

As for why ETO vs. PTO. I think it is because there were more servicemen involved in varied combat settings and the Germans did actually temporarily stall or defeat U.S. efforts on certain occasions. The U.S. in the ETO, also had allies who were highly critical of the U.S. decisions so we have a considerable post-war body of literature from our allies and enemies to read, compare and debate. How many memoirs of Japanese servicemen have been translated into English? How often did the Japanese defeat the U.S. after mid-1942? After early 1943?

Last edited by Felix C; 08-20-2012 at 11:07 AM..
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:46 AM
 
Location: southern germany
43 posts, read 86,805 times
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interesting arguments !

But there is one point that i cant understand. The war in the pacific was an "true-american", in Europe the States entered the scene very late. The Germans were totaly exhausted by the russians and the brits. So the "honour" ist more in the pacific than in europe.

I am also wondering about the fact that so many americans still talking with high respect of the beaten german troops.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,919 posts, read 24,172,210 times
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I have relatives and ancestors who were on both sides and it is in living memory (but not for long). I can talk to my Grandfather in Ohio and his cousin in the Hesse about their actual experiences in WWII.
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Old 08-20-2012, 12:03 PM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,469,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyfromgermany View Post
interesting arguments !

But there is one point that i cant understand. The war in the pacific was an "true-american", in Europe the States entered the scene very late. The Germans were totaly exhausted by the russians and the brits. So the "honour" ist more in the pacific than in europe.

I am also wondering about the fact that so many americans still talking with high respect of the beaten german troops.
In general, the Pacific "only" consumed around 10%-15% of the US war effort. When you line up a room of 10 WW2 vets, chances are nine of them served in Europe. It means that many peoples personal connection is to the war in Europe moreso then it is to the war in the Pacific.

Americans also like a good story and "saving Europe and western civilization" from the Nazi's plays well to a lot of people. It doesn't matter what the state of the German army was in 1944 or the point the US really entered the war, it was marketed as and still remains in the public mind a war of liberation, good vs. evil. While that exists for the Pacific, it is different because most Americans don't trace their ancestry to the Pacific. The Pacific war was largely fought over desolate islands that have no real meaning to most Americans. The Yanks storming the beaches of Normandy and driving on to liberate Paris reverberates more in peoples psyche then the Yanks driving the Japanese off of Peleliu. Given that many Americans these days have trouble finding France on a map, don't even bother asking them about some island in the Pacific.

Then you get into the war itself and the way it was fought. When most people are asked to describe a WW2 battlefield, they will think of columns of tanks, bomber raids, fighter planes, massive flanking maneuvers, etc. Basically the war in Europe. The war in the Pacific was a lot of attritional infantry combat on islands punctuated by naval clashes and over a vast stretch of territory. People find the image of Shermans duking it out with Panthers to be a more interesting thing to read about.

On the topic of the German military, what you are seeing is a twofold thing:

1. The Germans are Europeans and many Americans have German ancestory. There is a bit of a romanticized notion and curiosity with the German army. In the case of the Japanese, they were Japanese and more 'foreign' to most Americans. In a lot of cases Americans at the time were only couple generations removed from grandpa "John" fighting for the US versus grandpa "Hans" having fought for Germany.

2. Among the historical community, both professional and amateur, there is a deep respect and admiration for the German military machine. From the leadership and tactics to the equipment used they composed what is generally considered the "best" fighting force of WW2. In many cases there is a very conscious effort to separate the professional old Prussian dominated Wehrmacht from the actions of the SS and other groups. Many people see the Wehrmacht as simply being a professional force fighting for their country. Many of the innovations in equipment and tactics pioneered by the Germans also eventually found their way into the post-WW2 allied armies and several prominent German commanders were held in very high esteem by the allies and served as advisors to the allies who were now drawing up plans to oppose the Soviets.
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Old 08-20-2012, 12:40 PM
 
Location: southern germany
43 posts, read 86,805 times
Reputation: 57
Thanks for the detailed answer - sounds "logical". Very interesting that the ancestry is so important by remembering this period.

Is the influence of the german forces still in the mind of the normal people ? There is a lot of material about the tanks, u-boats, guns, fighter-planes and all the other advanced technologies - it is hard to believe, that so many non-german people are still fascinated by this stuff.
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