U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 03-15-2013, 03:47 PM
 
3,073 posts, read 2,216,087 times
Reputation: 5997

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoodsofATL View Post
*sigh* Hear me out, would you expect Afrikan/black people to be key experts in the history of Russia? No, so why would white scholars hold the monopoly of history of KMT? KMT did mean "Land of the blacks" evidenced by Ancient Greek Scholars. Both the Dogon and Kamau view the Siruis stars as the mother system. They both had ancient knowledge of astronomy and physics with no "technical" knowledge that we use today. You say the "theory" that I used was long abandoned but not refuted Can you refute what I said, in depth. If you can I will bow out this debate humbly, but until then let's get it!
I have posted 12-24 studies, papers, quotes by the top geneticists who have studied the situation...are you telling me that they lied because they are white?

The Egyptians have been a mixed race people since at least the neolithic, possibly the paleolithic, and the mix is of North African and West Asian, which are phenotypically similar due to being geographically at similar latitudes.

You are reading pseudo-science. The Dogon do NOT have advanced astronomical knoweldge. Many of their assertions are have been found to be just plain incorrect. They either geussed right about about a couple of things or learned it from somebody. This is an old wives tale.

Look, you seem like a nice guy, and I assume you are probably African American? It is important that you understand that I am doing what I am doing partially because WEST AFRICA has a great history of its own that needs attention and interest. I have already listed some very good places to start if you are interested in learning the REAL history of your REAL ancestors.

The other thing is that is really upsets me that guys like "Unbreakable" are trying to steal a history form its rightful owners. The Egytpians lived on the other side of the continent, spoke a different language group, had demonstrably lighter skin and finer features, and by all scientific accounts were a mixed race group since at least the Neolithic. Virtually no African Americans trace their ancestory to Egypt.

Study Dhar Tichitt Wlata, Ghana, Mali, Songhai, Benin, the Nok etc. instead.

 
Old 03-15-2013, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
21,028 posts, read 15,237,623 times
Reputation: 11769
Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
Since there was no Nubian empire at the time of the birth of Egypt, you obvioulsy have no idea what you are talking about. Whether their were even Nubian monarchies at the time is still being debated. Egypt was created from Southern Egypt, not Nubia, Heirakonpolis, to be exact, and there is no evidence that these were anything but the same Egyptians we see today. In fact, I have posted something like 12-24 genetic studies. You are speaking in complete fairy tale.

There is no evidence that the Greeks studied in Egypt. I have read Black Athena as well, and EVERYTHING Bernal cites, the Heremes Trismegetos writings, the Golden Ass, is from the from the common era. The Greeks liked to claim that their knoweldge was ancient for the same reaosn that tarot card readers do the same- it sounds cool. But there is not a single extant text which can shows Greek learning to be Egytpian. It is myth.

We have dealt with the nonsense about Egypt being "whitened." They are largely the same people that they have always been, Norht African mixed with Eurasian since the Neolithic, very little sub-saharan DNA (and more today than in the past due to the slave trade). They have been darkened if anything. All of this is in the large number of corroborating scientific studies that I have posted.

The 18th dynyasty may have been Nubian. It does not mean that Egypt was ever "blacker" as a whole (it wasn't, read though the studies I have posted).
The 25th, not the 18th.

The rest is spot-on.


History of Nubia

25th Dynasty, Ancient Egypt (ca. 746 BC to 653 BC) | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed
 
Old 03-15-2013, 07:06 PM
 
802 posts, read 902,663 times
Reputation: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
I have posted 12-24 studies, papers, quotes by the top geneticists who have studied the situation...are you telling me that they lied because they are white?

If you did so earlier in the thread at least give me a reference point, such as a post # and thread page. Give me proof of that claim was again if it such a wide amount of "studies" were saying the same thing.

The Egyptians have been a mixed race people since at least the neolithic, possibly the paleolithic, and the mix is of North African and West Asian, which are phenotypically similar due to being geographically at similar latitudes.

You're embarrassing yourself. You're making no such sense, tell me, specifically the people who the "Egyptians" mixed with, make sure it corresponds with the time periods you just named specifically.


You are reading pseudo-science. The Dogon do NOT have advanced astronomical knoweldge. Many of their assertions are have been found to be just plain incorrect. They either geussed right about about a couple of things or learned it from somebody. This is an old wives tale.

Are you saying that The Dogon People of West Afrika knew nothing of the Sirius star system long before European Civilization? Better yet you tell me or show me what they have been "refuted" on.

Look, you seem like a nice guy, and I assume you are probably African American? It is important that you understand that I am doing what I am doing partially because WEST AFRICA has a great history of its own that needs attention and interest. I have already listed some very good places to start if you are interested in learning the REAL history of your REAL ancestors.

You telling another person about HIS own history from HIS own ancestors.. Stop

The other thing is that is really upsets me that guys like "Unbreakable" are trying to steal a history form its rightful owners. The Egytpians lived on the other side of the continent, spoke a different language group, had demonstrably lighter skin and finer features, and by all scientific accounts were a mixed race group since at least the Neolithic. Virtually no African Americans trace their ancestory to Egypt.

Really?....... I don't even know where to begin

Study Dhar Tichitt Wlata, Ghana, Mali, Songhai, Benin, the Nok etc. instead.

KMT(Egypt) is in Afrika, not Eurasia; what you're reading is the real revision of ANCIENT history, I'll be the first of many to tell you that it is not the correct view, nor majority view on the planet. You need to get out more if you really believe what you're saying, you have a very Eurocentric/Americentric view of history. Stick with Eurasian history (EuRussia really )
 
Old 03-15-2013, 07:12 PM
 
802 posts, read 902,663 times
Reputation: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
... Numibia.net???















I love this site
 
Old 03-16-2013, 12:23 AM
 
6,314 posts, read 8,643,858 times
Reputation: 2661
HoodsofATL,


Did the ancient Egyptians use talking drums like west Africans are known for?


Were the Egyptians known for the type of rhythmic dancing and drumming that west Africans are known for?

Did the Egyptians produce similar mask carvings that west Africans are known for including the Dogon?

--------------------------
My point is that if many west Africans are originally Egyptians then the Egyptians should share these cultural similarities with west Africans.
 
Old 03-16-2013, 01:55 AM
 
3,073 posts, read 2,216,087 times
Reputation: 5997
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post

The 25th was definately Nubian.

I still hold out that the 18th and several others might have been Nubian. It just doesn't make the entire Egyptian population Nubian. We know who the Egytpians were, and they were not largely Nubian, although there was overlap.
 
Old 03-16-2013, 02:07 AM
 
3,073 posts, read 2,216,087 times
Reputation: 5997
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoodsofATL View Post
KMT(Egypt) is in Afrika, not Eurasia; what you're reading is the real revision of ANCIENT history, I'll be the first of many to tell you that it is not the correct view, nor majority view on the planet. You need to get out more if you really believe what you're saying, you have a very Eurocentric/Americentric view of history. Stick with Eurasian history (EuRussia really )

1) I will do better. I will re-post all of the studies and quotes (that I can't the full study too) and you can rad through them yourself. There is no question what-so-ever about who the Egyptians were amongst geneticists. Also, I will post some refutations of Unbreakable's best "sources" (which is being generous). Sorry they don't format well on this webisght, but it is what it is.

2) My opinions are based on science, not any silly Eurocentric/Amerocentric paradigm. You ahve a right to your opinions, not your fact.

3) The Dogon got a lot of things wrong and it is generally considered that they don't really know what they are talking about. You can look that up for yourself (start on Wiki) because only cranks believe what you believe and I am not getting into it. Please remember, your world view is a tiny minority. You are trying to convince others. I don't "better" do anything.

4) I am telling the man about his own history because he doesn't know it. He does not have a genetic knowledge of it.



VARIOUS DNA STUDIES PROVING EURASIAN ADMIXUTRE IN ANCIENT EGYPTIANS:

Mitochondrial DNA Sequence Diversity in a Sedentary Population from Egypt
A. Stevanovitch
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...3.00057.x/full
Mitochondrial genetic data from North Africa are documented by two groups of populations: one composed of populations of the Nile Valley, and the other by populations of the Maghreb. The Nile Valley has been shown to be a migration corridor with populations connected by gene flow
Krings et al. 1999 and phylogeographical analysis of mitochondrial lineages of populations from the Maghreb suggests that modern humans appeared from the Near East following at least two migrations around 50 000 years and 10 000 years ago. A possible migration from Europe may also have occurred during the Neolithic period Macaulay et al. 1999


Population history of north Africa: evidence from classical genetic markers.-
Bosch
http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/9708245325/population-history-north-africa-evidence-from-classical-genetic-markers
After an intensive bibliographic search, we compiled all the available data on allele frequencies for classical genetic polymorphisms referring to North African populations and synthesized the data in an attempt to reconstruct the populations' demographic history using two complementary methods: (1) principal components analysis and (2) genetic distances represented by neighbor-joining trees. In both analyses the main feature of the genetic landscape in northern Africa is an east-west pattern of variation pointing to the differentiation between the Berber and Arab population groups of the northwest and the populations of Libya and Egypt. Moreover, Libya and Egypt show the smallest genetic distances with the European populations, including the Iberian Peninsula. The most plausible interpretation of these results is that, although demic diffusion during the Neolithic could explain the genetic similarity between northeast Africa and Europe by a parallel process of gene flow from the Near East, a Mesolithic (or older) differentiation of the populations in the northwestern regions with later limited gene flow is needed to understand the genetic picture. The most isolated groups (Mauritanians, Tuaregs, and south Algerian Berbers) were the most differentiated and, although no clear structure can be discerned among the different Arab- and Berber-speaking groups, Arab speakers as a whole are closer to Egyptians and Libyans. By contrast, the genetic contribution of sub-Saharan Africa appears to be small.


Near eastern neolithic genetic input in a small oasis of the Egyptian Western Desert.
Am J Phys Anthropol.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19425100
Notwithstanding signs of expected genetic drift, we still found clear genetic evidence of a strong Near Eastern input that can be dated into the Neolithic. This is revealed by high frequencies and high internal variability of several mtDNA lineages from haplogroup T. The whole genome sequencing strategy and molecular dating allowed us to detect the accumulation of local mtDNA diversity to 5,138 +/- 3,633 YBP. Similarly, theY-chromosome gene pool reveals high frequencies of the Near Eastern J1

The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations
JR LUIS
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182266
"Paleoanthropological evidence indicates that both the Levantine corridor and the Horn of Africa served, repeatedly, as migratory corridors between Africa and Eurasia. We have begun investigating the roles of these passageways in bidirectional migrations of anatomically modern humans, by analyzing 45 informative biallelic markers as well as 10 microsatellite loci on the nonrecombining region of the Y chromosome (NRY) in 121 and 147 extant males from Oman and northern Egypt, respectively. The present study uncovers three important points concerning these demic movements: (1) The E3b1-M78 and E3b3-M123 lineages, as well as the R1*-M173 lineages, mark gene flow between Egypt and the Levant during the Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic. (2) In contrast, the Horn of Africa appears to be of minor importance in the human migratory movements between Africa and Eurasia represented by these chromosomes, an observation based on the frequency distributions of E3b*-M35 (no known downstream mutations) and M173. (3) The areal diffusion patterns of G-M201, J-12f2, the derivative M173 haplogroups, and M2 suggest more recent genetic associations between the Middle East and Africa, involving the Levantine corridor and/or Arab slave routes. Affinities to African groups were also evaluated by determining the NRY haplogroup composition in 434 samples from seven sub-Saharan African populations. Oman and Egypt’s NRY frequency distributions appear to be much more similar to those of the Middle East than to any sub-Saharan African population, suggesting a much larger Eurasian genetic component"

"Synthetic maps of Africa". The History and Geography of Human Genes.
Cavalli-Sforza.
http://books.google.com/books?id=FrwNcwKaUKoC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepag e&q&f=false
The gradient is clearly rooted in the relatively ancient presence of Caucasoids in a Northern strip along the Mediterranean and in additions from West Asia, which are visible in the second and third components....the C gene shows a clear North-South gradient, being frequent amongst Caucasoids and almost absent in sub-Sahara Africa. THERE ARE PEAKS IN EGYPT AND IN NORTHWESTERN AFRICA

Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations]BrennaHenn
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/...l.pgen.1002397
We identify a gradient of likely autochthonous Maghrebi ancestry that increases from east to west across northern Africa; this ancestry is likely derived from “back-to-Africa” gene flow more than 12,000 years ago (ya), prior to the Holocene. The indigenous North African ancestry is more frequent in populations with historical Berber ethnicity. In most North African populations we also see substantial shared ancestry with the Near East, and to a lesser extent sub-Saharan Africa and Europe.
Y-chromosome analysis in Egypt suggests a genetic regional continuity in northeastern AfricaManni

Y-chromosome analysis in Egypt suggests a genetic r... [Hum Biol. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI
"In conclusion, our analyses have identified a genetic regional continuity between the northeastern part of Africa (Egypt), the Middle East, and southern Europe. In agreement with the ethnohistorical connections between NE Africa and the Middle East, the genetic data confirm that Egypt, occupying an intermediate position along these routes, has been an important contact zone between the three continents."

The emerging tree of West Eurasian mtDNAs: a synthesis of control-region sequences and RFLPs
Am. J. Hum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1377722/
We show that the main indigenous North African cluster is a sister group to the most ancient cluster of European mtDNAs, from which it diverged approximately 50,000 years ago

Mitochondrial DNA structure in North Africa reveals a genetic discontinuity in the Nile
Karima Fadhlaoui-Zidhttp://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.21472/abstract
Human population movements in North Africa have been mostly restricted to an east-west direction due to the geographical barriers imposed by the Sahara Desert and the Mediterranean Sea. Although these barriers have not completely impeded human migrations, genetic studies have shown that an east-west genetic gradient exists. However, the lack of genetic information of certain geographical areas and the focus of some studies in parts of the North African landscape have limited the global view of the genetic pool of North African populations. To provide a global view of the North African genetic landscape and population structure, we have analyzed 2,300 North African mitochondrial DNA lineages (including 269 new sequences from Libya, in the first mtDNA study of the general Libyan population). Our results show a clinal distribution of certain haplogroups, some of them more frequent in Western (H, HV0, L1b, L3b, U6) or Eastern populations (L0a, R0a, N1b, I, J) that might be the result of human migrations from the Middle East, sub-Saharan Africa, and Europe. Despite this clinal pattern, a genetic discontinuity is found in the Libyan/Egyptian border, suggesting a differential gene flow in the Nile River Valley. Finally, frequency of the post-LGM subclades H1 and H3 is predominant in Libya within the H sequences, highlighting the magnitude of the LGM expansion in North Africa. Am J Phys Anthropol, 2011. © 2011 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
North African Populations Carry the Signature of Admixture with Neandertals
Federico Sánchez-Quinto
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0047765[

The results of the f4 ancestry ratio test ([/SIZE][SIZE=3]Table 2[/SIZE][SIZE=3] and Table S1) show that North African populations vary in the percentage of Neandertal inferred admixture, primarily depending on the amount of European or Near Eastern ancestry they present ([/SIZE][SIZE=3]Table 1[/SIZE][SIZE=3]). Populations like North Morocco and Egypt, with the highest European and Near Eastern component (~40%), have also the highest amount of Neandertal ancestry (~60–70%)....Furthermore, the Neandertal's genetic signal is higher in populations with a local, pre-Neolithic North African ancestry. Therefore, the detected ancient admixture is not due to recent Near Eastern or European migrations.G

Genetic Variation of 15 autosomal STR loci in Upper (Southern) Egyptian

Local comparisons between Upper Egyptians were carried out with other ethnic groups in Egypt, based on frequency and molecular data. No differences were observed in comparison with a general Caucasian population from Cairo in any of the nine loci compared or with Egyptian Christians from Cairo…Multi-dimensional scaling (MDS) based on pair-wise FST genetic distances of Upper Egyptian and other diverse global populations. OCE, Oceanian; ME, Middle Eastern; NAF, North African; EAS, East Asian; SSA, sub-Saharan African; UEGY, Upper Egyptian; SAS, South Asian; EUR, European. The figure shows that Oceania and American populations are very distant from Upper Egyptians (marked by a grey triangle) and other populations. The Upper Egyptian population is closer to the Middle Eastern, North African, South Asian and European populations than others. (Genetic variation of 15 autosomal STR loci in Upper (Southern) Egyptians, Omran et al 2008.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]DNA STUDY PROVING MODERN EGYPTIANS 90% GENETICALLY IDENTICAL TO ANCIENTS:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]PROOF Modern Egyptians descend from Ancient Egyptians -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz50_nx8UDg[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]STUDIES SHOWING THAT SUB SAHRAN AFRICA DNA- NOT EURASIAN- HAS INCREASED IN MODERN TIMES- SOME ALSO CONTAIN DATA ON EURASIAN DNA[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Research on ancient DNA in the Near East[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Mateusz Baca[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]http://www.scribd.com/doc/26068943/B...-DNA-Near-East[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]To obtain the frequencies of these mtDNA types, amplification of the HVRI region and three RFLP markers was conducted. The authors succeeded in analysing RFLP markers in 34 samples and HVRI sequences in 18 of the samples. Both populations, ancient and contemporary, fit the north-south clinal distribution of “southern” and “northern” mtDNA types (Graver et al. 2001). However, significant differences were found between these populations. Based on an increased frequency of HpaI 3592 (+) haplotypes in the contemporary Dakhlehian population, the authors suggested that, since Roman times, gene flow from the Sub-Saharan region has affected gene frequencies of individuals from the oasis.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]]mtDNA analysis in ancient Nubians supports the existence of gene flow between sub-Sahara and North Africa in the Nile valley[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]C. Fox, 1997[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]The Hpal (np3,592) mitochondrial DNA marker is a selectively neutral mutation that is very common in sub-Saharan Africa and is almost absent in North African and European populations. It has been screened in a Meroitic sample from ancient Nubia through PCR amplification and posterior enzyme digestion, to evaluate the sub-Saharan genetic influences in this population. From 29 individuals analysed, only 15 yield positive amplifications, four of them (26·7%) displaying the sub-Saharan African marker. Hpa I (np3,592) marker is present in the sub-Saharan populations at a frequency of 68·7 on average. Thus, the frequency of genes from this area in the Merotic Nubian population can be estimated at around 39% (with a confidence interval from 22% to 55%). The frequency obtained fits in a south-north decreasing gradient of Hpa I (np3,592) along the African continent. Results suggest that morphological changes observed historically in the Nubian populations are more likely to be due to the existence of south-north gene flow through the Nile Valley than to in-situ evolution.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Mitochondrial DNA Research in the Dakhleh Oasis, Egypt[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Alison M. Graver[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Molecular genetic research is being conducted as part of the Dakhleh Oasis Project (DOP), an international and multi-disciplinary research initiative in the western desert of Egypt. Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is being analyzed from both ancient human skeletal remains associated with the Roman period town of Kellis (100 to 450 AD) and contemporary inhabitants of the Dakhleh Oasis. The primary objectives of this research are to derive paleogenetic information about the inhabitants of ancient Kellis, and to develop a picture of change over time within this desert oasis. Preliminary mtDNA restriction site data and control region sequence variability suggest significant genetic differences exist between the ancient and modern oasis populations[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]mtDNA Analysis of Nile River Valley Populations: A Genetic Corridor or a Barrier to Migration? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Krings[/SIZE]
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...02929707631826To assess the extent to which the Nile River Valley has been a corridor for human migrations between Egypt and sub-Saharan Africa, we analyzed mtDNA variation in 224 individuals from various locations along the river. Sequences of the first hypervariable segment (HV1) of the mtDNA control region and a polymorphic HpaI site at position 3592 allowed us to designate each mtDNA as being of northern or southern affiliation. Proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the southern Sudan. At slowly evolving sites within HV1, northern-mtDNA diversity was highest in Egypt and lowest in the southern Sudan, and southern-mtDNA diversity was highest in the southern Sudan and lowest in Egypt, indicating that migrations had occurred bidirectionally along the Nile River Valley. Egypt and Nubia have low and similar amounts of divergence for both mtDNA types, which is consistent with historical evidence for long-term interactions between Egypt and Nubia. Spatial autocorrelation analysis demonstrates a smooth gradient of decreasing genetic similarity of mtDNA types as geographic distance between sampling localities increases, strongly suggesting gene flow along the Nile, with no evident barriers. We conclude that these migrations probably occurred within the past few hundred to few thousand years and that the migration from north to south was either earlier or lesser in the extent of gene flow than the migration from south to north.

GENETIC STUDIES ON OTHER AFRICAN GROUPS PROVING BACK MIGRATION

A Predominantly Neolithic Origin for Y-Chromosomal DNA Variation in North Africa
Arredi
A Predominantly Neolithic Origin for Y-Chromosomal DNA Variation in North Africa
"We have typed 275 men from five populations in Algeria, Tunisia, and Egypt with a set of 119 binary markers and 15 microsatellites from the Y chromosome, and we have analyzed the results together with published data from Moroccan populations. North African Y-chromosomal diversity is geographically structured and fits the pattern expected under an isolation-by-distance model Autocorrelation analyses reveal an east-west cline of genetic variation that extends into the Middle East and is compatible with a hypothesis of demic expansion. This expansion must have involved relatively small numbers of Y chromosomes to account for the reduction in gene diversity towards the West that accompanied the frequency increase of Y haplogroup E3b2, but gene flow must have been maintained to explain the observed pattern of isolation-by-distance. Since the estimates of the times to the most recent common ancestor (TMRCAs) of the most common haplogroups are quite recent, we suggest that the North African pattern of Y-chromosomal variation is largely of Neolithic origin. Thus, we propose that the Neolithic transition in this part of the world was accompanied by demic diffusion of Afro-Asiatic–speaking pastoralists from the Middle East."...[SIZE=3] that most of the rest fell into haplogroup U6 (Salas et al. 2002), which perhaps originated in the Near East and spread into North Africa ~30 thousand years (KY) ago (KYA)

Mitochondrial DNA transit between West Asia and North Africa inferred from U6 phylogeography
Nicole Maca-Meyer
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/4/15
World-wide phylogeographic distribution of human complete mitochondrial DNA sequences suggested a West Asian origin for the autochthonous North African lineage U6. We report here a more detailed analysis of this lineage, unraveling successive expansions that affected not only Africa but neighboring regions such as the Near East, the Iberian Peninsula and the Canary Islands.

The mtDNA legacy of the Levantine early Upper Palaeolithic in Africa.
Olivieri A
[SIZE=3]Sequencing of 81 entire human mitochondrial DNAs (mtDNAs) belonging to haplogroups M1 and U6 reveals that these predominantly North African clades arose in southwestern Asia and moved together to Africa about 40,000 to 45,000 years ago. Their arrival temporally overlaps with the event(s) that led to the peopling of Europe by modern humans and was most likely the result of the same change in climate conditions that allowed humans to enter the Levant, opening the way to the colonization of both Europe and North Africa
Fulvio Cruciani et all

Although human Y chromosomes belonging to haplogroup R1b are quite rare in Africa, being found mainly in Asia and Europe, a group of chromosomes within the paragroup R-P25* are found concentrated in the central-western part of the African continent, where they can be detected at frequencies as high as 95%. Phylogenetic evidence and coalescence time estimates suggest that R-P25* chromosomes (or their phylogenetic ancestor) may have been carried to Africa by an Asia-to-Africa back migration in prehistoric times. Here, we describe six new mutations that define the relationships among the African R-P25* Y chromosomes and between these African chromosomes and earlier reported R-P25 Eurasian sub-lineages. The incorporation of these new mutations into a phylogeny of the R1b haplogroup led to the identification of a new clade (R1b1a or R-V88) encompassing all the African R-P25* and about half of the few European/west Asian R-P25* chromosomes. A worldwide phylogeographic analysis of the R1b haplogroup provided strong support to the Asia-to-Africa back-migration hypothesis. The analysis of the distribution of the R-V88 haplogroup in >1800 males from 69 African populations revealed a striking genetic contiguity between the Chadic-speaking peoples from the central Sahel and several other Afroasiatic-speaking groups from North Africa. The R-V88 coalescence time was estimated at 9200–5600 kya, in the early mid Holocene. We suggest that R-V88 is a paternal genetic record of the proposed mid-Holocene migration of proto-Chadic Afroasiatic speakers through the Central Sahara into the Lake Chad Basin, and geomorphological evidence is consistent with this view.


Study showing it difficult to find sub-Saharan DNA in modern Egyptians

Genetic variation and population structure of Sudanese populations as indicated by 15 Identifiler sequence-tagged repeat (STR) loci
[SIZE=3]PCA indicated that the Egyptian, Coptic, Somali, and to some extent the Nubian groups form genetically distinct population...the Somali population is of both Eurasian and Sub Saharan African origin, as suggest5ed by a recent study, potentially explaining the differentiation of this population from some East African groups, although many of the Sudansese populations, including the Arabs and the Beja, may also have mixed Eurasian and Sub-Saharan origin
Babiker 2011[

LUCOTTE CHART OFTEN USED BY AFROCENTRIC SUPPPORTERS. CHART ACTUALLY SAYS THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY THINK. EGYTPIANS HAVE PRIMARILY NORTH AFRICAN Y-CHROMOSOME HAPLOTYPES, NOT WEST ASIAN...PROVING THAT THERE WERE NO INVADING ASYRIANS, PERSIANS, ETC. THESE ARE NOT SUB-SAHARAN EITHER, AND THE EURASIAN COMPONENT IS SEEN IN THE MTDNA STUIES CITED ABOVE. ALL THIS CHART PROVES IS THAT EGYTPIANS HAVE VERY LITTLE SUB-SAHARAN DNA, AND THERE WERE NO MASSIVE ARMIES OF INVADERS THAT ALTERED THE GENE POOL. BLACK EGYPT BECOMES IMPOSSIBLE SINCE THEY ARE THE SAME PEOPLE AS ALWAYS.
[img] http://mathildasanthropologyblog.fil...tte-colour.png [/img]

Brief Communication: Y-Chromosome Haplotypes in Egypt Lucotte
Brief communication: Y-chromosome haplot... [Am J Phys Anthropol. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI
"As for mtDNA (Krings et al., 1999), the present study on the Y-chromosome haplotype shows that there are northern and southern Y-haplotypes in Egypt. The main Y-haplotype V is a northern haplotype, with a significantly different frequency in the north compared to the south of the country: frequencies of haplotype V are 51.9% in the Delta (location A), 24.2% in Upper Egypt (location B), and 17.4% in Lower Nubia (location C). On the other hand, haplotype IV is a typical southern haplotype, being almost absent in A (1.2%), and preponderant in B (27.3%) and C (39.1%). Haplotype XI also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) compared to the north (11.7% in A) of the country. In mtDNA, sequences of the first hypervariable HpaI site at position 3592 allowed Krings et al. (1999) to designate each mtDNA as being of northern or southern affiliation, and proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the Southern Sudan.
It is interesting to relate this peculiar north/south differentiation, a pattern of genetic variation deriving from the two uniparentally inherited genetic systems (mtDNA and Y chromosome), to specific historic events. Since the beginning of Egyptian history (3200–3100 B.C.), the legendary king Menes united Upper and Lower Egypt. Migration from north to south may coincide with the Pharaonic colonization of Nubia, which occurred initially during the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty, 1991–1785 B.C.), and more permanently during the New Kingdom, from the reign of Thotmosis III (1490–1437 B.C.). The main migration from south to north may coincide with the 25th Dynasty (730–655 B.C.), when kings from Napata (in Nubia) conquered Egypt."


STUDY SHOWING BODY LENGHTS ARE NOT TROPICAL, BUT INTERMEDIATE, AND PROBABLY SO DUE TO PHENOTYPICAL DEVELOPMENT

Egyptian Body Size: A Regional and Worldwide
Michelle H. Raxter
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/vi...xter%202011%22
n Ancient Egyptians as a whole generally exhibit intermediate body breadths relative to
higher and lower latitude populations, with Lower Egyptians possessing wider body
breadths, as well as lower brachial and crural indices, compared to Upper Egyptians and
Upper Nubians. This may suggest that Egyptians are closely related to circum-
Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern groups, but quickly developed limb length


AFROCENTRISTS USUALLY CITE DR. KEITA, WHO IS NOT A GENETICIST AND HAS DONE NO ORIGINAL GENETICS WORK. IN ANY EVENT, HIS WORK DOES NOT SUPPORT THEIR POSITION. WHAT DR KEITA ACTUALLY SAYS ABOUT THE RACE OF ANCIENT EGYPTIANS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZssWb4MmGM

PROBLEMS WITH DNA TRIBES AND RAMSES STUDIES IS THAT THEY WERE BOTH BASED ON JAMA WORK BY ALBERT ZINK, WHO HAS ADMITTED THAT HE FALSIFIED:
"Zink has stated that the tests did not get the same results each time they were run and the results reported in the JAMA paper are those the team adjudged "most likely" based on "majority rule" (Curse of the Pharaoh's DNA AWT Conference Review, Marchant; 2011)
The same team (including Zink) that worked on the 2010 study also worked 2012 study "Revisiting the harem conspiracy and death of Ramesses III: anthropological, forensic, radiological, and genetic study".

PROBLEMS WITH DNA EXTRACTION METHODS AND CONTAMINATION
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/1104...l/472404a.html

ALSO, THERE IS THE PROBLEM IN BOTH STUDIES OF USING TOO FEW AUTOSOMAL MARKERS:
http://hamiticunion.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=print&thread=38
"Thus the answer to the question “How often is a pair of individuals from one population genetically more dissimilar than two individuals chosen from two different populations?” depends on the number of polymorphisms used to define that dissimilarity and the populations being compared. The answer, can be read from Figure 2. Given 10 loci, three distinct populations, and the full spectrum of polymorphisms (Figure 2E), the answer is 0.3, or nearly one-third of the time. With 100 loci, the answer is 20% of the time and even using 1000 loci, 10%. However, if genetic similarity is measured over many thousands of loci, the answer becomes “never” when individuals are sampled from geographically separated populations." This DNA Tribes paper uses even fewer loci than 10, so its margin of error is considerably higher than 30%. What good are genetic 'findings' that are around 40% likely to be wrong? Not especially useful let alone accurate.

QUOTES FROM OTHER STUDIES I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND IN ENTIRETY. PLEASE HELP IF YHOU CAN.
The M1 and U6 haplogroups originated simultaneously in Western Asia, and spread together with modern humans into Northern Africa. These early populations may represent the root stock of the early settlers/inhabitants of the Eastern Sahara who were subsequently to people the Nile valley and build one of the first organized city states...the Egyptian Pharaonic empire
Aubrey et at 2008

Attested presence of Caucasian people in Northern Africa goes up to Paleolithic times. Linguistic research suggests that the Afro-asiatic phylum of languages could have originated and extended with these Caucasians.
Maca-Meyer et al 2003

Afro-Asiatic was introduced into Africa along with immigrant farmers and herdsmen from the near East 10,000 to 7,000 years ago.
Turner 2008

Indigenous North Africans are genetically quite distinct from Sub-Saharan Africans and this difference is reflected in their lighter skin and European/Middle Eastern physical features. We have previously suggested, on the basis of the distribution of the mtDNA type M1 that North Africans are largely descended from a back migration into Africa within the last 2000 to 15,000 years, resettling the temporarily lush Sahara and spreading the Afro-Asiatic language family. Forrester 2007

These new colonizers of North Africa were of Caucasian surface phenotype. Then a second wave of afro-Asiatic expansion exploded from the Palestine Syriac center (the Afro-Asiatic homeland) probably for reasons associated with the genesis of agriculture, which would locate the expanison at about 10,000 BP. The new expansion into North Africa again virtually covered up the entire area of the first Afro-Asiatic North Africa settlement
Chin 2007

The first M1 backflow into Africa dated around 30,000 ya, is co-incidental with a harsh glacial period which suggests that this human retreat to Africa could be forced by climatic conditions...the northwestern African M1c and the probable central M1b expansions are co-incidental with the Iberomaurusian and Capsian industries
Gonzales et al 2007

aDNA anaylsis was possible to uncover the genetic heritage of prehistoric man (Iberomaurusian) from the Taforalt groto in Morocco (13,000 yeas BP) consisting of a North African and a Eurasian component. The absence of sub-sahara gentic polymorphisms suggested that Taforalt individuals did not originate from the sub-saharan region.
Kefi 2011

The near Eastern Haplogroups J and T (and probably K) appear to be concentrated more towards the East, mirroring the higher densities of U6, H, and V in the West. These may reflect the spread of the Neolithic into North Africa from the Levant
Pereira 2010
[
The biological affinities of the ancient Egyptians were tested against their neighbors and selected prehistoric groups as well as against samples representing the major geographic population clusters of the world. Two dozen craniofacial measurements were taken on each individual used. The raw measurements were converted into C scores and used to produce Euclidean distance dendrograms. The measurements were principally of adaptively trivial traits that display patterns of regional similarities based solely on genetic relationships. The Predynastic of Upper Egypt and the Late Dynastic of Lower Egypt are more closely related to each other than to any other population. As a whole, they show ties with the European Neolithic, North Africa, modern Europe, and, more remotely, India, but not at all with sub-Saharan Africa, eastern Asia, Oceania, or the New World. Adjacent people in the Nile valley show similarities in trivial traits in an unbroken series from the delta in the north southward through Nubia and all the way to Somalia at the equator. At the same time, the gradient in skin color and body proportions suggests long-term adaptive response to selective forces appropriate to the latitude where they occur. An assessment of race is as useless as it is impossible. Neither clines nor clusters alone suffice to deal with the biological nature of a widely distributed population. Both must be used. We conclude that the Egyptians have been in place since back in the Pleistocene and have been largely unaffected by either invasions or migrations. As others have noted, Egyptians are Egyptians, and they were so in the past as well.
1993 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

"the theory that the badarian originated in the south is no longer accepted"
(shaw, 2003)

Last edited by cachibatches; 03-16-2013 at 03:09 AM..
 
Old 03-16-2013, 09:04 AM
 
802 posts, read 902,663 times
Reputation: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
HoodsofATL,


Did the ancient Egyptians use talking drums like west Africans are known for?


Were the Egyptians known for the type of rhythmic dancing and drumming that west Africans are known for?

Did the Egyptians produce similar mask carvings that west Africans are known for including the Dogon?

--------------------------
My point is that if many west Africans are originally Egyptians then the Egyptians should share these cultural similarities with west Africans.
To all those questions, I believe that it may very could have been, though we know that Ancient KMT was Ancient as in tens of thousands years old, alot of non-metal/rock artifacts most likely went back to the Earth.

Though I will continue to point out the Dogon have very similar hieroglyphics, as well as language to Ancient KMT.
-------

Last I checked the genetic marker did not place KMT as the starting point of all humanity, that area is in present-day Ethiopia. Ethiopian Empire and the Nubian Empire are synonymous.
 
Old 03-16-2013, 10:31 AM
 
6,314 posts, read 8,643,858 times
Reputation: 2661
^

Well if someone can show that the ancient Egyptians used talking drums then that would definitly indicate a connection between ancient Egypt and other blacks Africans since talking drums are a significant part of many west African cultures.
 
Old 03-16-2013, 10:36 AM
 
802 posts, read 902,663 times
Reputation: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
1) I will do better. I will re-post all of the studies and quotes (that I can't the full study too) and you can rad through them yourself. There is no question what-so-ever about who the Egyptians were amongst geneticists. Also, I will post some refutations of Unbreakable's best "sources" (which is being generous). Sorry they don't format well on this webisght, but it is what it is.

2) My opinions are based on science, not any silly Eurocentric/Amerocentric paradigm. You ahve a right to your opinions, not your fact.

3) The Dogon got a lot of things wrong and it is generally considered that they don't really know what they are talking about. You can look that up for yourself (start on Wiki) because only cranks believe what you believe and I am not getting into it. Please remember, your world view is a tiny minority. You are trying to convince others. I don't "better" do anything.

4) I am telling the man about his own history because he doesn't know it. He does not have a genetic knowledge of it.
I've read most of the material you posted. Just to let you know Berbers and Moors are synonymous, so therefore you're agreeing with me and proving a point that I have made already. However i didn't click on any of the links seeing as you copy and pasted the material I assume you wanted me to read. Now those scientist are either a) bias to the point that they won't black people to be known for nothing and revise history/science b) they don't know half the **** they talking about.

2) What do you mean I do not have a right to my fact? Let me show you my facts, supported by scientists, anthropologists and historians:

Quote:
Egyptians see Nubians as subjects

These paintings from the tomb of Huy, the Egyptian governor of Nubia during the reign of King Tutankhamun (1336–1327 BC), pictures Nubians bringing tribute for Egypt’s pharaoh. The scene shows a wide variety of Nubians. Some are in Egyptian dress, including a woman riding in a cart. Others, including children, appear in Nubian dress. The skin color of the Nubian men ranges from dark red to brown to black; skin tones for some of the women are lighter.




The Nubian prince Hekanefer had an Egyptian-style tomb


Despite being shown as a traditional Nubian in the tomb painting of Huy (below), Hekanefer’s own tomb reveals that he was acculturated to Egyptian religious beliefs and customs. Discovered at Toshka in northern Nubia during the 1960s, Hekanefer’s tomb contained the funerary figurine (ushebti), pictured here at left. The ushebti was a traditional Egyptian servant figure placed in the tomb to perform labor for the deceased in the afterworld
Other than the obvious contradiction that is evident, this is solid proof, without a doubt that Nubians and Ancient Kamau were always intermixing and even practiced the same rituals and religion. Now if you look at the Ethiopian and Bantu people you'll see they're the same people and basically all of Afrika is one people, Afrikan people.

3)Study the Dogon People. Simple minded you are to keep saying the same thing with no evidence or proof to refute what I've said.

4)White people came from caves, Caucus mountains, practiced beastiality and rape and disrespected their women. The Ashkennazi Jews are a made up culture and people. The US is built on racism and slaughter as well as division which they practice to this day. White people are genetically inferior to people containing melanin and carotene, and thus white supremacy is practiced throughout the globe today in overt and subtle ways all the time to ensure the survival of the white race.

I'm letting know your history and your people, just in case you don't have genetic knowledge of it already

Last edited by HoodsofATL; 03-16-2013 at 11:34 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top