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"Authorities in Germany are investigating whether they can prosecute a former Nazi camp guard who has been living in the United States for 60 years, they said Monday.
Prosecutors are probing the case of Johann Breyer, who admits to having been a guard at the notorious Auschwitz camp, where more than 1 million people, most of them Jews, were killed during World War II."
Interesting, the US says they cannot extradite him, because he was 17 yrs old at the time of his enlistment in the SS. I was 17 yrs old when I joined the Marine Corps and no one had a problem with that.
However, others think Germany should "let it go," because of how old the crimes were. Personally, I think the "man" should hang. Your thoughts? Opinions?
[url=http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/24/world/europe/germany-nazi-guard/index.html?iref=obinsite]. Personally, I think the "man" should hang. Your thoughts? Opinions?
So just being a guard is sufficient to execute this man? No need to investigate to see if he is guilty of any specific crimes?
Did you read the whole linked article?
Quote:
Breyer, 87, says he was only a perimeter guard and did not persecute anyone, according to legal papers related to his battle to keep his U.S. citizenship.
He is claiming that he is innocent of crimes, whether he is or is not, doesn't he at least merit a trial?
Quote:
But German authorities are investigating evidence against him, and expect to have preliminary results in October, said Gert Schaefer, a spokesman for the chief public prosecutor in the Bavarian town of Weiden.
You do not think we should wait for the results of the above investigation? Just hang him and be done with it?
So just being a guard is sufficient to execute this man? No need to investigate to see if he is guilty of any specific crimes?
Did you read the whole linked article?
He is claiming that he is innocent of crimes, whether he is or is not, doesn't he at least merit a trial?
You do not think we should wait for the results of the above investigation? Just hang him and be done with it?
Oh please, stop. Of course I read the whole article. Have you ever stopped to read many articles about the same people? Always these "camp guards," who are now caught, say, "I had nothing to do with the killing. I was actually against it." Blah, blah, blah. Yet, NONE of them did anything to stop it, stand up to the killing, etc. And before you say: "Oh. You wouldn't have either." "Anyone who stood up against the killing were killed themselves."
First, I would have stood up. Second, many people did and requested transfers from the death camps and they were GRANTED. None of them were killed.
In so far as a "fair trial?" Why? He admitted to being a guard at a camp designed for NOTHING more then killing (assuming he was a guard at Berkenau). He is complicit in the design, implementation, and murder of approximately 1.2 millions men, women, and children. He KNEW what was occurring and his involvement assisted in the murdering.
Then afterword, like the coward he is, he runs away to the United States. Living, probably a pretty good life, compared to those he assisted in killing.
Personally, hanging him would be too good of a punishment. He should be stripped down, hair shaven off, deloused, and walked into a gas chamber himself. After he dies a slow death, from either carbon monoxide poisoning or Zyklon B, his body can be cremated too. Give him the same punishment he assisted in a million other murders.
He was a kid then. He's a very old man now. Leave him alone. If he's "responsible", then you're just as responsible for all the innocent people that have been murdered by the U.S. government. Why didn't you stop that???
Yeah, let's hang him. And while we're in the mood for re-fighting a 70-year-old war, let's hang any surviving members of the Allied air crews who burned entire civilian neighborhoods out of existence in Germany and Japan. Sauce for the goose...
Oh please, stop. Of course I read the whole article. Have you ever stopped to read many articles about the same people? Always these "camp guards," who are now caught, say, "I had nothing to do with the killing. I was actually against it." Blah, blah, blah. Yet, NONE of them did anything to stop it, stand up to the killing, etc. And before you say: "Oh. You wouldn't have either." "Anyone who stood up against the killing were killed themselves."
First, I would have stood up. Second, many people did and requested transfers from the death camps and they were GRANTED. None of them were killed.
In so far as a "fair trial?" Why? He admitted to being a guard at a camp designed for NOTHING more then killing (assuming he was a guard at Berkenau). He is complicit in the design, implementation, and murder of approximately 1.2 millions men, women, and children. He KNEW what was occurring and his involvement assisted in the murdering.
Then afterword, like the coward he is, he runs away to the United States. Living, probably a pretty good life, compared to those he assisted in killing.
Personally, hanging him would be too good of a punishment. He should be stripped down, hair shaven off, deloused, and walked into a gas chamber himself. After he dies a slow death, from either carbon monoxide poisoning or Zyklon B, his body can be cremated too. Give him the same punishment he assisted in a million other murders.
Perhaps one day if Iraq, Afghanistan and any number of countries where we've bombed, blown stuff up and the like ever comes to power, they should seek you out because you didn't do enough to prevent the war crimes The United States of America is/has done in those areas.
So he was a camp guard. At the time, rumors abounded about the Russian front, so stay cosy and safe guarding some Jews that aren't dangerous to be around, warm uniforms, plenty to eat, or go off to the Russian front... Hum, that's a hard choice to make for somebody that realizes there's a good chance of getting killed in actual combat.
Do you really think that this man is solely responsible for the deaths of millions of Jews? It was his idea alone? He was some low rank youth that was probably drafted. Even if he wasn't conscripted, Hitler took Germany out of the depression it was wallowing in. He restored pride to a broken nation, so many men bought into the propaganda they were showered with and joined the military. WWII is not entirely Germany's fault. The allies of WWI hamstrung Germany so that it would never recover, which paved the way for Hitler to take power, Jews becoming the scapegoats, and the outbreak of WWII. Hence every WWI ally shares the culpability for WWII along with Germany and are partially guilty for the deaths of not only Jews, but everybody that perished due to WWII.
He was a coward because he ran off to America? Have you ever seen photos of what Germany looked like after WWII? Moreover, many Germans feared living in the Russian sector, so they absconded off to other countries. Furthermore, German industry was a shambles, so jobs, food, housing and all that it takes to live was rather difficult. Many German soldiers went off to the French Foreign Legion out of desperation, so the fact that this guard went to America to seek a better life is hardly any proof that he was a coward, committed a war crime, and the like.
This man's some 87 years old, and now they've suddenly found him... Whether he's guilty or not shouldn't matter at that age. He'll be dead soon, so it's not worth the time to prosecute him for a purported crime that happened 70 years ago. I'm quite sure that there are more pressing issues to deal with than some 70 year old crime. How about all the men that worked on the post WWII ICBM, nuclear bombs, and space race that were former Nazis. Oh they were ok. American children even read about how great they were in our school books and or history lessons.
I just love myopic people that feel we should all believe whatever tautology they've been spoon fed, and anybody that doesn't belong to that group should simply be summarily executed without any sort of kangaroo court hearing, and yet they find it completely unacceptable that German guards worked in concentration camps. My God how ironic that belief system is!
I am not privy to all the facts, and some press statement banged off the cuff for headlines, witch hunts, and the like would keep me from making black and white statements about somebody's guilt and how they should be treated sub human because our propaganda differs from theirs.
Last edited by bolillo_loco; 10-06-2012 at 01:53 AM..
Reason: I am no Rhodes scholar...
The SS was NOT the Wehmacht, or Regular Army. People were not drafted into the SS. On the same token the Pope was a member of the Hitler Youth, had he been a few years older he might have been SS.
You bring to mind one of my favorite western movie/tv show cliche scenes. The mob gets all boozed up and marches over to the jailhouse carrying a noose. The sheriff steps out carrying a shotgun and says "That's far enough." He is told by the drunks that "We ain't got no quarrel with you, Bob, 'jes stand aside and we're gonna see that he gets what's coming to him." A few more threats are exchanged and the sheriff says "He's gonna get a fair trial when Judge Donovan gets here on Monday."
....then...and this is the part you would play, some drunk's voice rises out of the crowd and says..
"He didn' gib old man Perkins no fair trial!"
And everyone mutters agreement and advances a few feet....and of course the sheriff eventually gets them all to back down by threatening to shoot the ones doing all the talking.
So, you have now informed us that your attitude toward the idea of a fair trial is "Oh, please."
Age is one thing, the fact that he was "just a guard" is another. The Nuremberg trials has already ruled that using that sort of defence is not justifiable if indeed attrocities were committed by an individual. Many tried to use that defense of "we were just following orders". It didn't work then, it should not work now. We don't know if he did or not participate in attrocities, the article does not give that detail, and I am not sure what German law is. If he was just a witness to such attrocities, in his guard role, then I would hope he would be allowed to live in peace, with maybe living with the guilt that he played a part in the Nazi murder machine.
However, if he activily participated in the brutality in these camps - personally shooting prisoners, brutalizing prisoners, herding them into gas chambers - he hangs. Whatever his age at the time - these are adult crimes.
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