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Westering Man,I'll have to get on the ball about that Diogenes. Had a quick glance though God's Frontiersmen and it mentions a fella called Colter who it seems is the 'run of the arrow' man,and it was Robert Campbell who built Fort Laramie.
Interesting discussion as ancestors on my mom's side (although they were English) were associated with Boone, Carson, Walker, Jed Smith and Colter in Kentucky and Missouri. It was a very small world back then out that way. I didn't know of the old world connection between the Boones and Carsons.
Interesting discussion as ancestors on my mom's side (although they were English) were associated with Boone, Carson, Walker, Jed Smith and Colter in Kentucky and Missouri. It was a very small world back then out that way. I didn't know of the old world connection between the Boones and Carsons.
My 5x great grandfather after release from his indenture went to Kentucky at the same time that the Boones and others were settling there, and his brother stayed. I've heard there is some kind of relation with Daniel Boone. Given the small amount of people and the amount of children, its likely. We sometimes forget that back then unless the family migrated somewhere else, people often never went much beyond where they were born, and in areas with small populations its likely that in some way most of the population was related.
My 5x great grandfather after release from his indenture went to Kentucky at the same time that the Boones and others were settling there, and his brother stayed. I've heard there is some kind of relation with Daniel Boone. Given the small amount of people and the amount of children, its likely. We sometimes forget that back then unless the family migrated somewhere else, people often never went much beyond where they were born, and in areas with small populations its likely that in some way most of the population was related.
I have seven relatives including two direct ancestors on this list of settlers:
Nightbird,an interesting and dare I say poignant post. Yes I think we are touched by our ancestors. I think in our 'minds-eye' we can go back and picture what the people in those days went though. How life was one big struggle to survive against the elements and I have to say, other people. We have it easy today in comparision.
Sam Houston's folk came from Ulster. County Antrim I believe. Of course though the years different spellings of the name does happen. Houston is still a fairly common name in Ulster.
Never knew to just recently that Burt Lancaster's grandparents were from Belfast. I would guess that Lancaster would be an English name. It said in the book 'God's Frontiersmen' that the Scots in Ulster so predominated that though time the name Ulster-Scots came to be applied to the English,Welsh,and Huguenot people in Ulster also.
The branch I know the most about were English, but lived in a small country village. First the area is described as two villages in 1400. Then by 1500 its one, then after 1600 it loses the 'on the fields' designation as sheep took over. Before they were skilled labor. After just 'labor'. Then in the next generation it became part of East London. The two brothers came as convicts, in 1719, but took off for Kentucky as soon as they could. What strikes me about the Ulster-Scots is that no matter how bad, they just kept going. Like my English branch. Since most of those imported to dilute the Irish were poor and hoping for better, and were in the same situation, they must have had more alike than not. Past coming to America, most of the additions to their like were scots irish or with Pennsulvania connections.
I've yet to untangle the Hustin/Houston/? connection past one or two generations with all the specifics. But I go through my dad's family and a few generations back they come from the same places and counties that mom's do too. Many come from County Antrim.
I don't think we have any clue just how hard life was up through the 1800's. Thing is, if its all you know then you don't know its hard, just life. But I think there would be a great winnowing of the current population if we were dropped into that world.
I was thinking about when I decided to move to Oklahoma, from socal, where I'm a third generation native. I just didn't want to be there anymore. Mostly what I loved and remembered wasn't anymore. Today we often relocate with the thought we can always go home if it doesn't work out. I knew it was a one way trip, and I was taking a chance, but it felt like the right thing to do. I think I may have been channeling my ancestors then. It did feel like it.
Interesting discussion as ancestors on my mom's side (although they were English) were associated with Boone, Carson, Walker, Jed Smith and Colter in Kentucky and Missouri. It was a very small world back then out that way. I didn't know of the old world connection between the Boones and Carsons.
CAVA...me either until I came across that piece. Some books say that Boone was an Ulster-Scot. I'm not so sure. I know he was very friendly with them and mixed a lot with them but whether he was one himself is another thing. Yes I have read that Boone was of English stock. Thats why I'm doubtful about him being Ulster-Scots. But as that article said the two families were vey close
I heard them say that Carson was an Ulster-Scot but didn't know too much of his background. Heres a few lines from God's Frontiersmen..Chapter 9 Mountain Men and Millionaires. Its as you have said
Kit Carson,the most famous of them,was the grandson of William Carson,an Ulsterman who had moved south from Pennsylvania along the Great Valley route to North Carolina. Kit was born in Missouri,and at the age of sixteen he ran away from an apprenticeship in the saddlery trade to join an early expedition along the Santa Fe trail. He became in turn a trapper,a scout,and Indian agent and the commander of a brigade in the Civil War. Soft-spoken,astemious and gentlemanly,he was in total contrast to his fellow Mountain Men. Less well known was Kit's elder brother Moses,a formidable,six-foot hunter,'with a good eye and a few fingers',who survived the terrible mountain life to a retirement in Calfornia.
I heard them say that Carson was an Ulster-Scot but didn't know too much of his background. Heres a few lines from God's Frontiersmen..Chapter 9 Mountain Men and Millionaires. Its as you have said
Kit Carson,the most famous of them,was the grandson of William Carson,an Ulsterman who had moved south from Pennsylvania along the Great Valley route to North Carolina. Kit was born in Missouri,and at the age of sixteen he ran away from an apprenticeship in the saddlery trade to join an early expedition along the Santa Fe trail. He became in turn a trapper,a scout,and Indian agent and the commander of a brigade in the Civil War. Soft-spoken,astemious and gentlemanly,he was in total contrast to his fellow Mountain Men. Less well known was Kit's elder brother Moses,a formidable,six-foot hunter,'with a good eye and a few fingers',who survived the terrible mountain life to a retirement in Calfornia.
Here's the list of militia members at the Missouri settlement where Kit grew up, including his father (misspelled Linsey) and where he supposedly ran away from. I'm not sure he really ran away as that many in that bunch were Santa Fe trail traders so his going off to NM would have been pretty normal. Sarshall, their captain, was my 4x great grandmother's brother. You'll see quite a few Scottish names on it.
The branch I know the most about were English, but lived in a small country village. First the area is described as two villages in 1400. Then by 1500 its one, then after 1600 it loses the 'on the fields' designation as sheep took over. Before they were skilled labor. After just 'labor'. Then in the next generation it became part of East London. The two brothers came as convicts, in 1719, but took off for Kentucky as soon as they could. What strikes me about the Ulster-Scots is that no matter how bad, they just kept going. Like my English branch. Since most of those imported to dilute the Irish were poor and hoping for better, and were in the same situation, they must have had more alike than not. Past coming to America, most of the additions to their like were scots irish or with Pennsulvania connections.
I've yet to untangle the Hustin/Houston/? connection past one or two generations with all the specifics. But I go through my dad's family and a few generations back they come from the same places and counties that mom's do too. Many come from County Antrim.
I don't think we have any clue just how hard life was up through the 1800's. Thing is, if its all you know then you don't know its hard, just life. But I think there would be a great winnowing of the current population if we were dropped into that world.
I was thinking about when I decided to move to Oklahoma, from socal, where I'm a third generation native. I just didn't want to be there anymore. Mostly what I loved and remembered wasn't anymore. Today we often relocate with the thought we can always go home if it doesn't work out. I knew it was a one way trip, and I was taking a chance, but it felt like the right thing to do. I think I may have been channeling my ancestors then. It did feel like it.
Yes James Webb does make a distinction between the New Hampshire English,some of the Virgina English and the 'poor English'
''The original English settlements in Virginia were quite the opposite,immediately creating an agarian economy and a three-tired class system that often caused members of the lower classes to regress rather than advance. Of those English settlements de Tcqueville wrote, ''The men sent to Virginia were seekers of gold,adventurers without resourses and without character....they were in nowise above the level of the inferior classes in England''
It then goes on...
'And thus the Scots-Irish had nothing in common with either the English aristocracy in Virginia or the New England settlements. Nor,for that matter did the typical English who made their way into the mountains to join them. Some of the English in the mountain communities had come from Ulster with the Scots-Irish. Some came from the border areas between England and Scotland'.
And later..
''Third,there is a tendancy in many academic and literary quarters to lump the Scots-Irish in with the Irish themselves. More than 40 million Americans claim Irish descent,exclusive of those Scots-Irish who have self-identified themselves on census reports under other categories such as Scottish or ''native American.'' Interestingly,more than half of these are of Scots-Irish ancestry. This fact is rarely recognized even by Protestants of Scots-Irish descent,many of whom may be found happily wearing the green and marching in St Patrick's Day parades.''
Yes James Webb does make a distinction between the New Hampshire English,some of the Virgina English and the 'poor English'
''The original English settlements in Virginia were quite the opposite,immediately creating an agarian economy and a three-tired class system that often caused members of the lower classes to regress rather than advance. Of those English settlements de Tcqueville wrote, ''The men sent to Virginia were seekers of gold,adventurers without resourses and without character....they were in nowise above the level of the inferior classes in England''
It then goes on...
'And thus the Scots-Irish had nothing in common with either the English aristocracy in Virginia or the New England settlements. Nor,for that matter did the typical English who made their way into the mountains to join them. Some of the English in the mountain communities had come from Ulster with the Scots-Irish. Some came from the border areas between England and Scotland'.
And later..
''Third,there is a tendancy in many academic and literary quarters to lump the Scots-Irish in with the Irish themselves. More than 40 million Americans claim Irish descent,exclusive of those Scots-Irish who have self-identified themselves on census reports under other categories such as Scottish or ''native American.'' Interestingly,more than half of these are of Scots-Irish ancestry. This fact is rarely recognized even by Protestants of Scots-Irish descent,many of whom may be found happily wearing the green and marching in St Patrick's Day parades.''
Seems like it would be fairly easy to distinguish. If your ancestors came here from Ireland before the 1840s they were likely Scots-Irish and if from then on they were likely Irish Catholics. I don't recall reading about many of the latter out on the early ante-bellum frontier.
Here's the list of militia members at the Missouri settlement where Kit grew up, including his father (misspelled Linsey) and where he supposedly ran away from. I'm not sure he really ran away as that many in that bunch were Santa Fe trail traders so his going off to NM would have been pretty normal. Sarshall, their captain, was my 4x great grandmother's brother. You'll see quite a few Scottish names on it.
Aye, The first ten I would say they are still fairly common names in Ulster,and many of the others too. (John) Elliott stands out as it is my mothers' maiden name. They were a border reiver clan.
I see what you mean re the Santa Fe trail. It was the 'done thing' to head that way and Kit was only doing what was normal practice. I see the old movie 'Kit Carson' is on You Tube. Tried to download it but for some reason it didn't work.
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