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If there's anything to be learned from some of the more "off-the-wall" posts in this thread, it's that religious stridency and political demagoguery can make for a deadly combination, particularly if the possibility of access to a lot of power is on the table.
And the Europe of the Twenties and Thirties, with its class-consciousness and its devastated, corrupted enonomies, was a fertile breeding ground -- lots of disaffected people with devastated future plans, prone to look for someone or something to blame.
And a limited, or twisted view of history -- a few too many conspiracy theories, doesn't help.
Sounds familiar???
And yet there are a lot of people at this site who think that what we used to call the Old World has a better way.
On Netflix there's a controversial miniseries exploring the German occupation of Rome during World War II, and the Vatican's reaction to the Nazis' treatment of Jews. James Cromwell stars as Pope Pius XII, as he struggles to save Vatican City from destruction.
I wonder how accurate this account is......
The Ustase that were highlighted as the topic of the OP was an organization of Croatian Nationalists/Fascists. After Germany and Italy took over the territory of Yugoslavia the Ustase formed a fascist government that exercised nominal control over Croatia though was technically a dual protectorate of Italy and Germany (so never actually it's own independent state). The Ustase set about racially cleansing Croatian territory of Serbians (their main target) and Jews often in extremely barbarous ways. The Ustase were pretty much a wildcard that while nominally controlled by Germany and Italy neither did much to curb their behavior. Ustase activity was one of the galvanizing points for the Yugolsav Partisan groups that forced Germany and Italy to commit forces to the area. The Ustase were also fanatically Catholic and after the war members were spirited to Canada, Australia, Gnks ermany and South America via underground organizations operating under the protection of the Catholic Church. The 13th Waffen-SS Mountain Division Handschar was formed to help counter the partisans and was made up largely of anti-Serbian Muslim's from Bosnia and Croatian Ustase.
Anton Pavelic, the Ustase/Ustashi leader, was notoriously bloodthirsty, and sadly, he avoided capture and trial as a war criminal by escaping to South America disguised as a priest. He did survive an assassination attempt in Buenos Aires in the late 1950s, though.
As were Rudolf Hoess (commandant of Auschwitz), Franz Von Papen, Joseph Goebbels(excommunicated for marrying a Protestant) Heinrich Himmler was raised as a Catholic but during the Nazi era promoted the formation of a pagan nationalist religion.
I think if you weigh all the good that the Catholic church has done through the centuries you will see it outweighs any bad to include today's scandals. Remember Mother Theresea? Pope Paul II, and on and on and on...and now, the latest POPE who if true to his word, will be equally as popular among ALL people.
I believe there was blood on more hands than just the Catholic church during WWII, don't you? And I do mean other religions as well. To stand up to the Nazi war machine would have taken courage far too strong for most of us. I'm afraid I have to admit I would have been as weak as anyone if that had been my lot in life.
I believe the Catholic church did whatever it had to in order to survive. It's not like they were preaching from thousands of miles away. They were in the lion's den.
Monday morning quarterbacking it now seems fruitless. I believe the Catholic church has gone far to correct it's mistakes and continues to do so today. There are few that have as charitable of a record and purposely go to very, very downtrodden and deadly places to help fellow man.
I think if you weigh all the good that the Catholic church has done through the centuries you will see it outweighs any bad to include today's scandals. Remember Mother Theresea? Pope Paul II, and on and on and on...and now, the latest POPE who if true to his word, will be equally as popular among ALL people.
We must have different scales.
The Inquisition.
The Crusades.
Torture and murder of the Knights Templar
The Trial of Galileo
The witch hunts 1480 - 1750
The Reconquest of Spain
Pope Lucius III
Pope Benedict IX,
Pope Alexander VI,
Mary I
skipping the to the 20th Century, child buggery, Irish orphans etc I give you
Rev. Athanase Seromba. Seromba was one of the leading Catholics fomenting the Rwandan massacres.
PS this was a very, very short list.
BY the way, Francis is the best thing to happen to the Church in centuries.
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