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Old 05-05-2013, 03:19 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,079 posts, read 4,308,827 times
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Equality of people in America and the Soviet Union in the 50th year.
Ask Americans - Which country has the most free and equal for all people, many of them will tell America. But knowing the history of American democracy, I can safely say the Soviet Union. In the Soviet Union, all people regardless of race and nationality were truly equal.
In America, there were places for white and colored and doge in the constitution at the state level fixed-called second-class citizens (this naturally applies today are people of color)
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:05 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,427 posts, read 5,523,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
Equality of people in America and the Soviet Union in the 50th year.
Ask Americans - Which country has the most free and equal for all people, many of them will tell America. But knowing the history of American democracy, I can safely say the Soviet Union. In the Soviet Union, all people regardless of race and nationality were truly equal.
In America, there were places for white and colored and doge in the constitution at the state level fixed-called second-class citizens (this naturally applies today are people of color)
How many blacks did the Soviet Union have?

They were all equal, equal in poverty, misery, suffering and abuse at the hand of a totalitarian state.

why did some nameless, faceless, poor man who wanted only to get ahead in the world in was we he forced to work to death in the labor camps, or to be cut down by a firing squad, while you are alive..
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:21 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
How many blacks did the Soviet Union have?

They were all equal, equal in poverty, misery, suffering and abuse at the hand of a totalitarian state.

why did some nameless, faceless, poor man who wanted only to get ahead in the world in was we he forced to work to death in the labor camps, or to be cut down by a firing squad, while you are alive..
You know, our multinational country as well as for you. But we have for each other was always the same friendly and equal treatment. We did not have seats for black, yellow and white. And what about the camps all across America for Native Americans (which you call the reservation) We could not get a degree from the University regardless of skin color. How is it possible to formally give a person the status of second-class citizens?
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:22 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,211,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
You know, our multinational country as well as for you. But we have for each other was always the same friendly and equal treatment. We did not have seats for black, yellow and white. And what about the camps all across America for Native Americans (which you call the reservation) We could not get a degree from the University regardless of skin color. How is it possible to formally give a person the status of second-class citizens?
The only thing equal in the Soviet Union was the poverty and oppression. So while we indeed have second-class citizens, everyone in the Soviet Union were second-class citizens except for a tiny group of nomenklatura.

In the early 90s, I volunteered for a group that helped Soviet emigres adjust to life in the United States. We'd help them get a place to live and a place to work, as well as help them navigate through American society.

My favorite thing to do? Take them to a grocery store for the first thing and watch them wander the aisles. It was as if they had visited Disney World.

And if you were so equal, why did all those different ethnicities bolt away as fast as they could the minute the Soviet Union collapsed? Face it. You were nothing but an empire held together by brute force.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:00 PM
 
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Well, the OP did not address the standards of living, the OP simply alluded that using the factors of race and nationality in regards to equality in the USA and USSR, that the USSR was more equal.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:17 PM
 
12,655 posts, read 12,078,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
Equality of people in America and the Soviet Union in the 50th year.
1950's? Or 50th year of existence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
Ask Americans - Which country has the most free and equal for all people, many of them will tell America.
Ask today? Of course they will tell you this. Ask in 1950? Some will say eys, others would not depending on who it was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
But knowing the history of American democracy, I can safely say the Soviet Union. In the Soviet Union, all people regardless of race and nationality were truly equal.
This is true. Whether you were an Uzbek, Russian, or who ever; your status was equal. But as we saw after the USSR break up, this "equality" was made possible under the government structure, and once this government dissolved, the "equality" status of everyone dissolved as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
In America, there were places for white and colored and doge in the constitution at the state level fixed-called second-class citizens (this naturally applies today are people of color)
Yes, and the US overcame this and continues on its path. I do not see what poor people of color today have to do with anything, they are making choices that cause their poverty, the same way a white person and any other person does that is in poverty.

I do think the USSR has been underrated in terms of its progress and equality for different ethnicities and women.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:31 PM
 
13,823 posts, read 12,612,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
The only thing equal in the Soviet Union was the poverty and oppression. So while we indeed have second-class citizens, everyone in the Soviet Union were second-class citizens except for a tiny group of nomenklatura.

In the early 90s, I volunteered for a group that helped Soviet emigres adjust to life in the United States. We'd help them get a place to live and a place to work, as well as help them navigate through American society.

My favorite thing to do? Take them to a grocery store for the first thing and watch them wander the aisles. It was as if they had visited Disney World.

And if you were so equal, why did all those different ethnicities bolt away as fast as they could the minute the Soviet Union collapsed? Face it. You were nothing but an empire held together by brute force.
I am not going to comment on this discussion, because I find it hopeless to begin with, but I will comment on your last statement.
The reason that different ethnicites "bolted away," was because their ruling elite was hoping that they'd get better profits for their own pockets, if they deal directly with the West, rather than being subjected to a common union rule. ( And that goes to Russian communist nomenclatura first of all.) The West - namely the United States were feeding this sentiment as much as they could. They were VERY interested in the dissipation of the Soviet Union.
As for the average citizens of the country, the citizens of different republics - they didn't want to go separate ways at all. There was all-Union referendum held on the 17th of March 1991, ( the only such all-union referendum through the whole history of the Soviet Union,) where people voted for keeping the union of the republics.
You can see the results of the vote here - in the last table; colored green are "yes" votes.

’сесоŽзн‹й €е„е€ендƒм о со…€анении ССС* €” ’икипедия

The only exception there were the republics that refused to even participate in such referendum; Baltic countries that wanted to go their separate way ( for understandable reasons, since they were occupied since before the war, ) Georgia, Armenia and Moldova. These republics refused to set the referendum commisions to begin with and refused to participate in voting.
So basically the overwhelming vote of theSoviet people was "yes" to keep the Union, but Yeltzin ( already having American advisers sitting in Kremlin) came up with decision to dissipate Soviet Union actually AGAINST people's vote.
These are historical facts, that are not well-known in the West, so I don't blame you for not knowing them. Of course you'd get a very different picture while dealing with ( then) recent immigrants from the Soviet Union to the US, particularly if they were Russian Jews.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:47 PM
 
13,823 posts, read 12,612,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Well, the OP did not address the standards of living, the OP simply alluded that using the factors of race and nationality in regards to equality in the USA and USSR, that the USSR was more equal.
Quite honestly I think that GreyKarast is simply oblivious to such things as "comparison of standards of living."
It means that for him ( and Russians like him) as long as the basic needs are covered, the rest is unimportant.
He represents a very unmaterialistic part of Russian culture, that historically argued about the injustice of power of money in the world. And the belief in the justice of money is a quint-essential part of American psyche, that's why there is a deep-seated conflict between Russia ( well part of it) and America the way I see it.
It's deeper than simply politics; it's very philosophical or if you want biblical.
That is not to say that there are no deeply-materialistic people in Russia ( I mean look at today's Russian elite,) but they, in fact are going directly against the best values of Russian culture, basically destroying it at the very core.)
It's all about "Gog and Ma-gog" thing, apparently, lol.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:57 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
471 posts, read 721,560 times
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Freedom is often defined differently by people based on what they experienced before. I feel that America is more free than Russia by using the following as a guideline: People are still trying to get into America, both legally and illegally, while there is not a line waiting to get into Russia......

Most people in the world usually prefer to stay in the country of their birth. But back in the early 1960's, a recent era in America where discrimination was still a problem and before the civil rights laws were enacted, people were still prefering to stay here and deal with the problems... Very few were even considering escaping to Cuba, our nearest Russian-supported country at the time, while in eastern Europe, many were still risking being shot to climb over the iron curtain into the west...
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:19 PM
 
12,655 posts, read 12,078,941 times
Reputation: 17299
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryCarr View Post
Freedom is often defined differently by people based on what they experienced before. I feel that America is more free than Russia by using the following as a guideline: People are still trying to get into America, both legally and illegally, while there is not a line waiting to get into Russia.
Actually, there are millions of legal and illegal immigrants in Russia.
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