Would slavery have ended without the Civil War? (1930s, Washington, Ireland)

[jasper12]

The point I was making with the quotes, is to illustrate that while slavery is disgusting and inhumane, that apparently some slaves felt their lives were not so bad.

I am not defending slavery in any way, shape, or form.

As I wrote, I myself, was pretty surprised by the stories. Fantastic historical points of view from people who were slaves.

But, slavery was really more like work to manage all those folks, feed them, clothe them, take care of them, in the end, what appears to be free labor, is in fact a lot of money invested in a labor market that would have been cheaper to hire day labor, and not be responsible for housing them, feeding them, taking care of them..
Especially during off season when there were no crops to pick, plant, or weed.

Slavery was an institution, and I doubt it would have ended without the war, but I am sure by 1900, it would have been greatly reduced.

[ovcatto]

Originally Posted by Rush71

I agree, the North was trying to choke the South's economy by cutting their main economy with nothing to replace it.........the North treated the South the same way even after the Civil War.

Here we go again...

Cotton represented 75% of all U.S. exports. Guess who financed the cotton plantations with loans and lines of credit? It wasn't southern bankers. Guess shipped the cotton to British ports? It wasn't Capt. Johnny Reb. What nascent industry that played no small part in development of northern manufacturing depend upon? Cotton!

The South had was based upon a single economy of its own choosing, cotton! It was the southern monied class that chose to stake it hopes in labor intensive agriculture before and after the war. The north had nothing to do with that decision.

[kharing]

Slavery didn't truly end in my opinion. Share cropping was slavery in another form of exploitation. Prisons are modern day versions of slavery. I would even go as far as to claim this poor economy has created slaves out of US workers!

It's all about control and manipulation.

[ovcatto]

Originally Posted by jasper12

The point I was making with the quotes, is to illustrate that while slavery is disgusting and inhumane, that apparently some slaves felt their lives were not so bad.

Bad compared to what? When you are born to slaves, live as a slave, what exactly do you have to compare your life with? Oh, life wasn't so bad, master gave us scraps from the table and didn't beat us like da other slave masters? Heard of Stockholm syndrome???

I am not defending slavery in any way, shape, or form.

Well then stop defending it.

Slavery was an institution, and I doubt it would have ended without the war, but I am sure by 1900, it would have been greatly reduced.

Here's the rub, virtual slavery continued to existed in large parts of the South with many living and working the same plantations that their slave forebears lived and worked and in conditions not much better well into the 20th century.

Yes, slavery would have eventually come to an end without the necessity of a civil war, but I have yet to see a reasoned argument that would lend me to believe that universal emancipation would have taken place at anytime soon after the Civil War, particularly in light of southern resistance to even the most meager civil rights.

[ovcatto]

Originally Posted by kharing

Share cropping was slavery in another form of exploitation

"Share cropping" was nothing more than a tweaking of the slave system. As for prisons, southern states were notorious for handing over convicts (guilty along with the innocent) to labor contractors who were nothing more than modern day overseers.

Here I am trying to make an argument all the while PBS was doing it for me.

Slavery Ended In 1942

I'm done.

[thriftylefty]

Frederick Douglas said " A mean master will make you want a good master and a good master will make you want your freedom" Apparently there is no tolerable form of being a slave.

The words of the slave ,William Wells Brown, illustrate that just being a slave was tormenting. It also alludes to the notion that slavery was (or did erode) eroding something in the morality of slave holders also. That's why it would have never ended on its own and I would argue that it serves as the blueprint for our current system of class based labor.

THE SWEETS OF LIBERTY
1848



Is there a man that never sighed
To set the prisoner free?
Is there a man that never prized
The sweets of liberty?
Then let him, let him breathe unseen,
Or in a dungeon live;
Nor never, never know the sweets
That liberty can give.

Is there a heart so cold in man,
Can galling fetters crave?
Is there a wretch so truly low,
Can stoop to be a slave?
O, let him, then, in chains be bound,
In chains and bondage live;
Nor never, never know the sweets
That liberty can give.

Is there a breast so chilled in life,
Can nurse the coward's sigh?
Is there a creature so debased,
Would not for freedom die?
O, let him then be doomed to crawl
Where only reptiles live;
Nor never, never know the sweets
That liberty can give.

[Rush71]

Originally Posted by ovcatto

Yes, and it speaks to the point that any interview with black folks living in Mississippi in the 1930's is going to be more than a bit circumspect when it comes to shedding a bad light on the behavior of southern white folks. It's like asking a Soviet citizen in 1930's and expecting a negative appraisal of Stalin's gulags.

lol....... Comparing the south in the 30's to Stalin's Gulags? wrong metaphor.


by the way, not all "white" folks treated blacks badly. Is not out of a question that some black folks speak nicely of how some "white" folks treated them.

you been watching too many Hollywood movies of white guilt.

[Frihed89]

The majority of those in the Congress, by 1860, were not necessarily opposed to slavery; they just didn't want any more slave states in the Union. They wanted simply to contain slavery. Thus, the slave state vs. free state debate that had been burning through American politics since 1820 was fused with the larger issue of preserving the Union vs. succession.

The war was not an "accident" over the slavery issue. Succession could only have been prevented if Congress had been ready to allow slavery to spread to the new territories entering the Union. It was far from that point, morality aside.

[Linda_d]

Originally Posted by thriftylefty

Frederick Douglas said " A mean master will make you want a good master and a good master will make you want your freedom" Apparently there is no tolerable form of being a slave.

What sane person would be happy with being property to be bought, sold, and inherited like a horse or cow or with having the same befall your parents, siblings, spouse, children? That was the crux of the issue. Blacks endured slavery and pretended a docility that they really didn't feel because they had no choice. They endured. The white Southerners who thought they were "happy" with their station were rudely awakened to reality whenever and wherever Union troops appeared.

It's documented over and over again in military records and in eye-witness accounts by Union soldiers, by ex-slaves, and by white southerners themselves: when the Union troops appeared in a neighborhood, the slaves fled the plantations for the protection of the army. Sometimes they betrayed their "beloved" masters by informing foragers where the family had buried their silver and other valuables. Sometimes they joined in the looting themselves.

For those who think that slaves were "happy" in slavery, the numbers say differently:

179,000 black soldiers served in the Union Army between 1863 and 1865 (about 10% of the total).
19,000 black sailors served in the Union Navy during the war.
16 black soldiers were awarded Congressional Medals of Honor for their service
Thousands of black civilians worked as spies, teamsters, cooks, scouts, and general laborers for Union forces.

[Rush71]

^^^^^ LMAO......most whites in the UNION troops were racists as the south. Most didn't want blacks to serve in the Army with them.

the majority of blacks in the north joined the Army to get a paycheck and eat since the majority were in poverty.