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Lets look at what was bad about the Nazi party and lets face it 'bad' is an understatement in the extreme. The actions of the Nazi party which were unquestionably evil related to the treatment of people of different races, homosexuals and people with physical and mental disabilities. This is why the Nazi's are hateful. You can quibble about economic policy in terms of similarities with the left and right all you like but it makes no odds. What do these abhorrent policies have to do with the beliefs of socialists? Nothing what so ever. Look to people who are restricting rights and freedoms based on these principals if one is desperate to find parallels in modern day politics.
LordBalfour - "they were actually on the opposite end of the political spectrum from Socialists - Right-wingers"
They are only 'right-wingers' if you're further left (i.e., Communist). They're not opposites - they just opposed each other (i.e., like Stalinists killed Trotsky). I've got no problem lumping all these socialists into one murderous group: Hitler, Stalin, Mao. If you want to debate the finer points of the differences in their application of socialism, fine, but the fact remains that they were... socialists...
I didn't introduce this as a left / right spectrum discussion, but as a totalitarian vs democracy comparison. It's just easier to kill masses of your own people when the state is all-powerful, like under socialism 'as practiced' (nod to Luke)...
Luke81 - good post, but... "Those are the differences in theory, of course if you compare Stalin's Russia and Hitler's Germany you wouldn't find much difference, but in theory socialism and national socialism are complete opposites."
What you said is completely true and whoever disagrees is just an ignorant who fell for a communist lie. Of course socialists (especially Stalin) would say Hitler was right-wing, its a way to trick people into thinking capitalism is bad.
This apparently just got moved over here from another forum, and I doubt if many of us will read the 150 posts already there.
Socialism, in our time and place, is a sobriquet that means, to most people, somewhere between Capitalism and Communism, while to a few regular forum members, it is synonymous with the worst of Pol Pot's regime and even the post office poisons the well..
So a definition would be in order. In modern political science, Socialism is used to describe a narrowish sector of a national economic order. For example, a nation might choose to "socialize" its health care, railways, retirement savings or the energy, with the view that the universal benefits of such sectors are best not left in the hands of private sector manipulations for profit. Doing so does not make an entire nation or government "socialist", it simply means that measured discretion was used in some sectors, but not in others, to place an important element of national urgency under the umbrella of the state.
Obviously, Hitler socialized some aspect of German life and not others, just as other European nations did. Picking out a few anecdotal examples and saying "There, see?" does not shed a great deal of light on the greater question. You can't label Mexico a socialist nation, on the bare fact that they have nationalized distribution of highway motor fuels, because their telephone company, for example, is a less-regulated enterprise than in practically any other country.
Nazis were national socialists. Their opposition included social democrats and communists. The idea behind Nazi socialism wasn't the same as is expected in social democracy or communism. The Nazi idea was social engineering. While socialism is about putting more power in the hands of the people (the masses), Nazis were about totalitarianism.
Take religion for example. While Hitler pushed for Christianity as being above every other religion, the real idea was to have Germany adopt a singular version of Christianity... the one size fits all kind. He did not like the idea of fragmentation within the religion. In other words, a national socialization of the religion.
The Nazis only controlled the economy because they HAD to. You can't start a world war without that. Duh. this has nothing to do with "Socialism" or left wingers, as the OP seemingly wants to imply. Totally wrong. Socialism stands for everything liberals do not stand for.. no abortions, no gay-marriage, no human rights, no nothing. Liberals also do not seek the economic policies "Socialism" does. Claiming otherwise just shows how stupid that person is who makes that claim.
Yes they were as socailism and communtism are central controlof the means and prodcut of production. The difference is in theory comminism is the beleif that evntually there will be no need for governamnt control but of course it has never happened.They distribute the wealth but of course their is always a elite . They alos control evryhtig in the neame of the people when really its elite control.
Yes they were as socailism and communtism are central controlof the means and prodcut of production. The difference is in theory comminism is the beleif that evntually there will be no need for governamnt control but of course it has never happened.They distribute the wealth but of course their is always a elite . They alos control evryhtig in the neame of the people when really its elite control.
Maybe you should fix your spelling first before making false claims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Cells
Yes they were, both in name and in policy.
As I already said, these are delusional statements. You can't even back up your claim. They were not "Socialists". They were far right. What part of "World War" you don't understand? I already explained that they HAD to control everything. There was no way around it.
Nazis were national socialists. Their opposition included social democrats and communists. The idea behind Nazi socialism wasn't the same as is expected in social democracy or communism. The Nazi idea was social engineering. While socialism is about putting more power in the hands of the people (the masses), Nazis were about totalitarianism.
Take religion for example. While Hitler pushed for Christianity as being above every other religion, the real idea was to have Germany adopt a singular version of Christianity... the one size fits all kind. He did not like the idea of fragmentation within the religion. In other words, a national socialization of the religion.
That's my understanding. They also threw in the word "Socialists" to garner support from the trade unions. Of course, once they achieved power, the trade unions were one of the first victims of their hit list. Nazis weren't Socialists.
The truth about the Socialism in the National Socialist German Workers Party was way back in 1919 it was the German Workers Party and it styled itself to be a political party based upon the masses of the German working class, upon concerned with the needs of working-class families and their social problems and upon a strong German nationalism.
The German Workers Party had a platform which included the creation of a greater Germany consisting of all of the Germanic peoples of Europe, the abolition of incomes unearned by work, the nationalization of all trusts, the sharing of the profits of large industry with the state, the abolishment of land rents and of land speculation, the establishment of the death penalty for traitors, usurers and profiteers, the maintenance of a sound middle class, the communalization of all department stores and their lease at cheap rates to small traders, the abrogation of the treaties of Versaille and St. Germain, and the creation of a strong central power of the state.
Adolf Hitler joined the German Workers Party in Septeber 1919, after being dispatched by the Army to covertly observe their party meetings. By January 1920, he was its chief propagandist. In April 1920 the name of the part was changed to the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). By the summer of 1920 Hitler was the party's chief speaker and greatest fund raiser. By July 1920 there was a showdown in the emerging power struggle between Hitler and the old guard of the party. This showdown resulted in Hitler gaining control of the party, abolishing the committee that had previously ruled the party and establishing the furhrer princip, or leadership principle, thus heralding in the rise of der Führer. For the next 12 years, Hitler would make over the part in his own image.
Except for the Greater Germany, the abrogation of treaties and the establishment of a strong central power of the state, Hitler carried out none of the points in the party platform. The National Socialists had completely discarded Socialism in favor of Nationalism.
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You are so right!
