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Old 11-06-2013, 05:27 PM
 
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I wonder how things could have been different if the Union Army had worked to reintegrate the south back into the union instead of mass murder and other things they did. Their burning of cities, homes, and schools during the war hurt education for generations. I believe it was these things that helped to make the south a firm Democratic Party stronghold for more than a century out of resentment towards the party of the president in office during the Civil war.

Last edited by PJSaturn; 11-14-2013 at 02:02 PM..
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
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Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
I wonder how things could have been different if the Union Army had worked to reintegrate the south back into the union instead of mass murder and other things they did. Their burning of cities, homes, and schools during the war hurt education for generations. I believe it was these things that helped to make the south a firm Democratic Party stronghold for more than a century out of resentment towards the party of the president in office during the Civil war.
What "mass murder and other things" did the Union Army commit in the South after the end of the Civil War? What did they burn? The United States Congress over-rode Presidential Reconstruction after 1866 because under Andrew Johnson's lenient program, the southern states promptly set up governments full of ex-Confederates that were dedicated to re-enslaving the recently freed blacks.

Congressional Reconstruction established military rule in the former Confederacy, occupying the South with Union troops who were mostly black. Ex-Confederates were barred from voting and office holding until they swore an oath to the Union and received a pardon which most Confederates refused to do, so that gave power over to anti-Secessionist whites, northern transplants, and blacks. Former Confederate states were not allowed to rejoin the Union until they passed the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments.

The Confederates engaged in rebellion. In many countries, defeated rebels were/are hung or shot, forced into exile, transported to prison colonies, had all their wealth confiscated, etc. The Union, even under Congressional Reconstruction, acted with amazing restraint given the provocation. I believe only Henry Wirz, the commander of the infamous Andersonville prison camp, was executed. Jefferson Davis was imprisoned for a couple of years. Maybe a few others were imprisoned for shorter periods.

All in all, Southerners have nobody to blame but themselves for the holocaust that they unleashed on the country in 1861, and for the impoverishment of their region for another century.
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
I wonder how things could have been different if the Union Army had worked to reintegrate the south back into the union instead of mass murder and other things they did. Their burning of cities, homes, and schools during the war hurt education for generations. I believe it was these things that helped to make the south a firm Democratic Party stronghold for more than a century out of resentment towards the party of the president in office during the Civil war.
Mass murder? huh?
The Civil War left the south in ruins, since the war took a toll on their limited resources, which was primarily agricultural, and took place over there land, particularly Virginia, Tennessee, and Georgia. But there was no mass murder, not even during Sherman's infamous march.
Lincoln's reconstruction plans was, by all accounts and under the circumstances, surprisingly magnanimous.

So what history book have you been reading?
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:31 PM
 
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...they're back.
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Mass murder? huh?
The Civil War left the south in ruins, since the war took a toll on their limited resources, which was primarily agricultural, and took place over there land, particularly Virginia, Tennessee, and Georgia. But there was no mass murder, not even during Sherman's infamous march.
Lincoln's reconstruction plans was, by all accounts and under the circumstances, surprisingly magnanimous.

So what history book have you been reading?
Execution of confederate troops AFTER the war was over as well as the rape and murder they committed as they passed through the south.
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Mass murder? huh?
The Civil War left the south in ruins, since the war took a toll on their limited resources, which was primarily agricultural, and took place over there land, particularly Virginia, Tennessee, and Georgia. But there was no mass murder, not even during Sherman's infamous march.
Lincoln's reconstruction plans was, by all accounts and under the circumstances, surprisingly magnanimous.

So what history book have you been reading?
Not talking about Lincoln's plans. Plans made in Washington DC weren't always followed by the soldiers in the field looking for revenge.
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
Not talking about Lincoln's plans. Plans made in Washington DC weren't always followed by the soldiers in the field looking for revenge.
OK I am going to take your OP at face value. Forget about the mass murders and rapes and burning of schools, it didn't commonly occur. Forget about that. If for some reason you thought it was commonplace - you are incorrect.

The war, more precisely the change of the way of life in the south, brought about animosity of course. But the political divisions started way before even the war over the issue of slavery and states rights. It started at the birth of our country. The democratic party was formed of anti-federalist, and later split over the slavery issue. It really had nothing to do with the results of the civil war, but from political and social factors that existed before the war. This existed through the 20th century but started to shift due to changing party platforms and demographics. The democrat party's main base of support started shifting to the Northeast in the 1940s as they started supporting more and more social and labor causes.

It's more complex then that, but that is a quick summary, but the war did not really drive the political divisions of the time, the issues before the war did.
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
OK I am going to take your OP at face value. Forget about the mass murders and rapes and burning of schools, it didn't commonly occur. Forget about that. If for some reason you thought it was commonplace - you are incorrect.

The war, more precisely the change of the way of life in the south, brought about animosity of course. But the political divisions started way before even the war over the issue of slavery and states rights. It started at the birth of our country. The democratic party was formed of anti-federalist, and later split over the slavery issue. It really had nothing to do with the results of the civil war, but from political and social factors that existed before the war. This existed through the 20th century but started to shift due to changing party platforms and demographics. The democrat party's main base of support started shifting to the Northeast in the 1940s as they started supporting more and more social and labor causes.

It's more complex then that, but that is a quick summary, but the war did not really drive the political divisions of the time, the issues before the war did.
When the union Army made it's way south, they looted homes and businesses of all food and valuables (like gold and jewelry). They also raped the women, both white and black. If there were men or boys who may have been of age to fight, they were shot. If any southerner tried to stop the looting, they were shot. When they left, many homes had no livestock, no grain, and no crops in the soil. These were told to my grandparents by their parents who survived the attacks. General Sherman not only knew his troops were doing this, but he approved of the total destruction and did nothing to stop even the raping.
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:00 PM
 
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A real sore spot for south Louisiana was the government put in place by the Union troops made the French language illegal in the state Constitution. Teachers were brought into our area to make the kids speak English even though French was the only language they knew. They severely beat the students, some left with scars on their back from whipping. Many generations lost the language. Some took their children out of school to protect them from the beatings.
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
These were told to my grandparents by their parents who survived the attacks. General Sherman not only knew his troops were doing this, but he approved of the total destruction and did nothing to stop even the raping.
I suggest that instead of relying on grandpappy's fables and watching reruns of Birth of a Nation, that you pick up a book and actually read about the conduct of both armies as they waged warfare across the south, because confederate forces were just as quick to destroy anything that might assist Sherman's army as it marched to the sea.

As for Sherman condoning of rape and looting, take note of Special Field Order No.17 which ordered that;
"The only proper fate of such miscreants is that they be shot as common enemies to their profession and country; and all officers and privates sent to arrest them will shoot them without mercy on the slightest impudence or resistance"
The only documented variance with this policy was when Sherman's Army entered South Carolina which he singled out for special treatment, but upon entering North Carolina quickly move to restore order to the Army.

By the way, while thinking about this whole Southern pity meme, I further suggest that the Confederacy, and it's modern day apologist get down on their knees and pray to their god that the 4 million former slaves showed far more Christian charity to their former slave masters than anywhere else on the planet when the former oppressed freed from the shackles of that oppression showed such forbearance upon their former oppressors.
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