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Old 10-23-2014, 11:56 PM
 
Location: NW Indiana
1,426 posts, read 1,368,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
This is nonsense. We know because of plate tectonics that this is not true. There was unsubmerged land around Australia and the like that is now submerged, but there was no massive continent.

The Japanese "pyramid" is a natural formation and you can see the same "impossible" 90 degree angles cut into coastal rock by the tide. I am not familiar with you claims of walls, but based on such "discoveries" as the Biminy road, I guarantee that if there is any truth to this claim at all, they are natural formations.

This is a thread about a very real civilization. there is nothing of Graeme Hancock in it.
I agree that a continent as big as Africa in is absolutely not buried underwater in the Pacific. It simply is not supported by any science I am aware of.

I had actually thought the point was going to be that evidence of many early civilizations is probably underwater, buried by rising waters caused by the retreat of the last ice age. Many of these civilizations were likely centered on the coasts, which were flooded long ago, by rising sea levels. However, the poster went off on a highly unrealistic tangent.

There definitely seems to have been a thriving culture in the Balkan region, based at least partially on copper smelting. The archaeologists will probably continue to find further evidence of this, as more excavations are done.

The evidence of iron smelting baffles me, as I know of no other evidence of such early iron working. However, one could imagine the early metal working people in the area, trying to branch out beyond copper to see what other metals they could work with. They may not have been able to consistently and safely reach the higher temperatures needed for any mass production of iron.
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,366 posts, read 1,892,292 times
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Well, although the version of man traveling all over the world from its origination point in Africa is well documented with evidence to support it, it doesnt mean it is fact, nor does it mean that if it is indeed a true factual theory, that it is the only plausible one that could have existed.

Native Americans have always believed that the different races occured simultaneously all over the planet, and did not travel out of Africa and subsequently change in appearance as the result of climate and diet. Their theory is supported by the fact that tools, like the bow and arrow, occured simultaneously all over the world starting around 900 BC. or something like that. Then you have findings, like carbon-dated pale redheaded guys dressed in tartan plaids that are from 3000 years ago in Africa.

We have New Englands Stonehenge with stones containing ancient Pheoncian text. We also know that at onetime in the History of Mankind, that the Romans claimed the known world, from parts of Africa all the way up into parts of Russia.

The only fact we truely know is that Mankind has not kept a clear and concise record of its history on the planet. Much of what was said to have been kept has been destroyed by war and fire, and natural disaster.

Its an interesting and plausible idea at least.
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Old 10-25-2014, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Romania
1,461 posts, read 2,252,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
Any examples of enduring architecture? I have read that they made two and three story building or wood and mud, but nothing like a megalith or even a hill fortress that is still extant.

Anything I am missing?
The Cucuteni settlements were situated on top of the hills amdoften or in most cases fortified:
Settlements of the Cucuteni

Here is a photo of the hill of Cucuteni Neolithic settlement. You can see that the top of the hill was leveled and in 4th millenium were also fortification works:
http://www.financiarul.ro/2013/06/02...na-cucuteni-2/

The site at Cucuteni is not the most representative or important, just the first where Cucuteni artefacts have been discovered, in 1884. There are other sites more impressive. Nevertheless, the houses and temples were pretty simple in all Cucuteni sites.





Other Neolithic cultures have had more sophisticated architecture.



Here is a column decorated with a complex painted pattern from the site at Căscioarele, Călărași County, dated around 4200 BCE. The column had a cultic (was venerated), not structural role:
http://www.observatorcl.info/coloana...-si-arheologie



And here are clay models of multi-storey temples discovered (the models) in sites of Gumelnița Culture (4600-3900 BCE). The photos are to the bottom of the page:
O civilizatie "necunoscuta": GUMELNITA
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:12 AM
 
Location: Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
Would like to draw everyone's attention to a couple of new discoveries:


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/49645182/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/bulgaria-claims-find-europes-oldest-town/#.U-2vgLl0xv4

Unearthed in Croatia, the Stone Age oven | Daily Mail Online[/SIZE]

I mean, I am sold. If you accept that all of these cultures are related under the umbrealla of "Danube river valley" or "old Europe," then you have:

Oldest writing/proto writing in the world: Vinca Script (used by many Old European cultures)
Oldest gold working: Varna graves
Oldest Copper working: Vinca and others
Extensive trade networks: vinca
Separation of trades: all of old Europe
Two story Houses: vinca
Urbanization: Vinca
Stone Walls: New find in Bulgaria
Evidence of iron Smelting: New find in Croatia
Solar/Calender knowledge: Gosseck Circle and related
Social stratification: Evidenced by Varna

It is hard to see what was lacked to call this a civilization....if indeed you accept all of these cultures as related.
Add to these the discovery of the wheel. It was known that the wheel was an European discovery because the oldest previously known representations of wheel are on artefacts discovered in Europe, one from Slovenia and one from Poland, dated to 3,500 and 3,300 BCE:
Wheel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Also, the Near East ancient civilisations' words for wheel seems to have their roots in the Proto-IndoEuropean words:
Proto-Indo-European speakers of the Late Tripolye culture as the inventors of wheeled vehicles | Mathilda's Anthropology Blog.


A recent discovery from a site of Cucuteni Culture in Romania is an artefact with the representation of a cow on wheels, which was carbon dated to 3950-3650 BCE (read previous link):


Carro by ubi|solitudinem, on Flickr
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Old 10-25-2014, 09:50 AM
 
4,246 posts, read 3,270,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CARPATHIAN View Post
The Cucuteni settlements were situated on top of the hills amdoften or in most cases fortified:
Settlements of the Cucuteni

Here is a photo of the hill of Cucuteni Neolithic settlement. You can see that the top of the hill was leveled and in 4th millenium were also fortification works:
Pe urmele celei mai mari civiliza

The site at Cucuteni is not the most representative or important, just the first where Cucuteni artefacts have been discovered, in 1884. There are other sites more impressive. Nevertheless, the houses and temples were pretty simple in all Cucuteni sites.





Other Neolithic cultures have had more sophisticated architecture.



Here is a column decorated with a complex painted pattern from the site at Căscioarele, Călărași County, dated around 4200 BCE. The column had a cultic (was venerated), not structural role:
"Coloana de C



And here are clay models of multi-storey temples discovered (the models) in sites of Gumelnița Culture (4600-3900 BCE). The photos are to the bottom of the page:
O civilizatie "necunoscuta": GUMELNITA

Wow. I can't read the first one of course but I see more stone walls, like the one recently found in Bulgaria. There is really no doubt that the Danube river Valley was the cradle of civilization.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CARPATHIAN View Post
Add to these the discovery of the wheel. It was known that the wheel was an European discovery because the oldest previously known representations of wheel are on artefacts discovered in Europe, one from Slovenia and one from Poland, dated to 3,500 and 3,300 BCE:
The case just keeps getting more remarkable.
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Old 10-25-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Romania
1,461 posts, read 2,252,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
Wow. I can't read the first one of course but I see more stone walls, like the one recently found in Bulgaria.
In Romania have not been found Neolithic, not even Bronze Age settlements having stone walls or stone structures (except as foundation for houses). The oldest stone steructures are Greek temples in Histria and later, Dacian fortresses, in 5th century BCE. All the defensive structures were of earth and wood.
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Old 10-25-2014, 01:08 PM
 
Location: City of North Las Vegas, NV
11,674 posts, read 8,500,043 times
Reputation: 3232
Quote:
Originally Posted by CARPATHIAN View Post
A new theory by the "world's leading expert on ancient scripts and languages", Harald Haarmann.


What you think?

Minoans, First Advanced European Civilization, Originated From Europe Not Africa - D-brief | DiscoverMagazine.com

think that the oldest civilization might just be the Minoan of Crete Greece which can be traced to 9000BC
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Old 10-25-2014, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Romania
1,461 posts, read 2,252,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildWestDude View Post
Minoans, First Advanced European Civilization, Originated From Europe Not Africa - D-brief | DiscoverMagazine.com

think that the oldest civilization might just be the Minoan of Crete Greece which can be traced to 9000BC
You mean the oldest civilisation in Europe, I think.

The term "civilisation" has several closer senses, even only in the historiographical field.

In the most common undertstanding, it means a human group using writing (having written records), a having higly hierarchised society, complex poplitical organisation etc. From this point of view, Sumerians truly remain the first civilisation.

But the Balkans too have greatly contributed to the human advancement, discovering the metallurgy, the wheel, the writing, all these being adopted by the Near East from here. So I used the word "civilisation" in a way to point out at the importance of the Balkans' contribution.


Here is another article mantaining that the wheel is an European discovery:
The revolutionary invention of the wheel | Ancient Origins

In that article they say the wheel was discovered by peoples from Eurasian steppes, based on the linguistic evidence, the Sumerian word for wheel having Indo-European root. But the original territory of Indo-Europeans is not established, there are big divergent opinions between scholars.
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Old 10-25-2014, 05:15 PM
 
4,246 posts, read 3,270,897 times
Reputation: 8234
Quote:
Originally Posted by CARPATHIAN View Post
In Romania have not been found Neolithic, not even Bronze Age settlements having stone walls or stone structures (except as foundation for houses). The oldest stone steructures are Greek temples in Histria and later, Dacian fortresses, in 5th century BCE. All the defensive structures were of earth and wood.
Did you see the wall that was just found in Bulgaria? I posted a picture.
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Old 10-25-2014, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Romania
1,461 posts, read 2,252,031 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
Did you see the wall that was just found in Bulgaria? I posted a picture.
Yes.

As about your last but one reply, you said you saw in the first link in my message some stone walls, but couldn't read the article. The first link was the English page about Cucuteni Culture, so maybe you refered to the second link, a Romanian article about Cucuteni site?
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