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Old 03-16-2014, 04:46 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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How likely do you think that a Cold War between the U.S. and Imperial Germany would have been had Germany won World War I (regardless of whether WWI would have still broken out in 1914 or in a different year)?

Personally, I find this idea to be at least somewhat likely due to the fact that Kaiser Wilhelm II was notable for seeking to expand Germany's power and/or influence worldwide (with his Weltpolitik policy) and due to the fact that "Kaiser Bill" was notable for alienating many countries. Thus, it would not have been surprising to me if Wilhelm II and/or the German military would have turned their attention more on the Western Hemisphere had they won World War I in Europe.

In terms of industrial might, the German Empire was certainly very powerful and capable, and had Germany won World War I, it would have very possibly already had large a sphere of influence for itself in Europe, with Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, Poland, the Baltic States, Finland, Ukraine, and/or some other countries being German allies and/or German puppet states.

Also, these two Wikipedia articles might be worth taking a look at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German..._the_Caribbean

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperi..._United_States

Thoughts?

 
Old 03-16-2014, 06:09 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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For the record, I am speculating that a U.S.-Imperial Germany Cold War might have been at least somewhat less tense than the U.S.-U.S.S.R. Cold War which occurred in our TL due to the fact that unlike the U.S.S.R., Imperial Germany actually had a robust economy and thus probably had more to lose by/in a serious confrontation with the U.S. than the U.S.S.R. did.
 
Old 03-16-2014, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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In that the threat of total annihilation via a nuclear exchange was required to keep the real Cold War cold, and that no such threat would have existed in the immediate years after the German victory in WW I, I doubt that such a war could have stayed cold for very long. Either a peaceful working relationship taking into account the new order in Europe would have been arrived at, or some incident in some conflict somewhere would have triggered a shooting war.

Without knowing the specifics of the scope of the German victory and the state of defeated powers in terms of remaining military might, I can't be more specific in any imaginings of such a state of affairs.
 
Old 03-16-2014, 07:06 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
1. In that the threat of total annihilation via a nuclear exchange was required to keep the real Cold War cold, and that no such threat would have existed in the immediate years after the German victory in WW I, I doubt that such a war could have stayed cold for very long. Either a peaceful working relationship taking into account the new order in Europe would have been arrived at, or some incident in some conflict somewhere would have triggered a shooting war.

2. Without knowing the specifics of the scope of the German victory and the state of defeated powers in terms of remaining military might, I can't be more specific in any imaginings of such a state of affairs.
1. I am not entirely sure that I agree with you on this. After all, Imperial Germany might need a decade or two to recover after it wins World War I, and thus, while it might try increasing its influence worldwide, including in the Western Hemisphere (which the U.S. deeply cares about) even shortly after WWI ends, it might hesitate to provoke the U.S. enough in order to cause a war with the U.S. to occur.

For the record, my scenario here does not exclude some minor military skirmishes/conflicts between the German Empire and the United States--it simply excludes full, all-out major wars between these two countries.

2. You can fill in the details, but I was thinking of a scenario where Germany manages to either decisively defeat Russia and/or France or to make Russia's and/or France's war effort collapse due to these countries gradually becoming overwhelmed by WWI and its consequences at home. If Britain still fights in World War I in this scenario, then Germany will not be able to defeat it to as large of an extent/degree as it would defeat Russia and France in WWI in this scenario.

In the final peace treaty in this scenario's World War I, Germany acquires territories and puppet states in the East all of the way up to Ukraine (in other words, Germany manages to permanently keep its Brest-Litovsk-scale conquests in this scenario). In the West, Germany acquires some territories in northeastern France (perhaps the rest of Lorraine, maybe Belfort, et cetera) and maybe some territories in Belgium as well. Germany also acquires many or even most of France's and maybe Belgium's (overseas) colonies in this scenario.

Britain's military might is not as damaged by this scenario's World War I, even if Britain still enters WWI in this scenario. However, France and Russia require a very large amount of time (as well as a lack of willingness to act on the part of Germany) in order to recover and to revive their military might after World War I in this scenario.
 
Old 03-17-2014, 07:27 PM
 
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IF WWI had gone on much longer likely their would have been revolution in several countries as their was in Russia. Just as between the wars in was Hitlers national socialist fighting in the streets with the communist. There were even strong communist movements in UK during the war and socialist quickly won election afterwards. WWI and WWII where basically the last of European wars between the empires themselves for domination that destroyed much of the world along with the European powers fighting them.
 
Old 03-17-2014, 10:05 PM
 
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interesting question... what if Germany never existed?

Would there have been a communist revolution in Russia? If not, think about how different history would have been.
 
Old 03-18-2014, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Colorado
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This idea is extremely unlikely. As Grandstander has already pointed out, the concept of a "cold war" was foreign to the minds of the era in question. In addition to this, the United States was a very isolationist country and happy to keep her affairs within the western hemisphere. The United States was also just one great power among many; and the youngest one at that. Also, technology was still primitive enough to make long distance travel and communication relatively difficult, and establishing control over far away or remote areas could be complicated. For example, the most modern ships in the world would take several weeks to sail from London to Sydney.


Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing to indicate that if Germany somehow managed to defeat France, she would have become, or aspired to become, a superpower as we understand the term today. The Germans did not leave us any ideas of what their plans for a victory would look like with the exception of the Septemberprogramm. This rough draft suggests that Germany could have annexed Belgium, part of northeastern France, some African colonies, and created some puppet states in eastern Europe. There is nothing whatsoever to indicate that Germany would somehow become a superpower, let alone engage in a cold war with the isolationist United States. If Germany was even capable of controlling such vast territories and establishing global hegemony is highly questionable. Even one million active soldiers of the German army were not enough to occupy the conquered territories of eastern Europe through 1917-18 and a victorious Germany would still have had Britain, a weakened France, Italy, Japan, and Russia to contend with.
 
Old 03-18-2014, 03:42 PM
 
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If Germany would not have made the mistake of invading Russia where they basically were beaten by the harsh climate, the whole world would have been speaking German today. They were so much advanced in just about any technology at that time(like they still are today) that no country would have managed to beat them.
 
Old 03-18-2014, 11:28 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -thomass View Post
interesting question... what if Germany never existed?

Would there have been a communist revolution in Russia? If not, think about how different history would have been.
In such a scenario, World War I as we know it would not have occurred. Also, considering that Russia performed much better against Austria-Hungary and against the Ottomans than it did against Germany in World War I, I don't think that the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia would have occurred in this scenario.
 
Old 03-19-2014, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
If Germany would not have made the mistake of invading Russia where they basically were beaten by the harsh climate, the whole world would have been speaking German today. They were so much advanced in just about any technology at that time(like they still are today) that no country would have managed to beat them.
You're thinking of the wrong war drro. Germany defeated Russia in WWI.
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