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yes, as i stated, race is a social construct that has no basis in science. However, if you think that some how negates the very real impact 'race' as had on our (human) history, you are beyond naive and approaching ignorant.
race, as a social construct, is largely a phenomena produced through regional separations of our species and the different phenotypes (and in some instances culture) that evolved from that. to ignore these differences is ridiculous! and of course differences, including physical variation, can have a significant impact on 'success'; however one wants to define success.
so the only thing preposterous is your specious supposition to somehow to try to remain politically correct.
its quite sad...
OK, then I'll spare you the PC blurb and give it to you straight. A topic such as the one you posted can only be best described as "troll bait". Such a topic even if attempted to be discussed in a calm and logical manner will invariably draw all of the "whackos" out of the closet to join in and derail this into nothing but a race baiting, mud slinging, celebration of stupidity and the lowest common denominator. That's assuming the conspiracy theory junkies don't jump in with their own crackpot versions of events and steer the thread completely off-topic before it even gets into the racial supremacy rants.
There are plenty of forums where one could engage in this discussion, but many of them will have an obvious bias. Stormfront is one possible choice, but you will most likely just get lists of why "white" people are superior to all others. Similarly one could jump on an Afrocentric site and get lists of why "black" people are superior to all others. Just that simple paragraph right there will most likely draw the ire of some because I compared afrocentrists to white supremacists...
Regardless of all of that, you would first need to get everyone to agree on a definition of "succesful" to even have the discussion. Since that in and of itself is impossible, the entire thread is basically over even before it really starts.
especially considering its is in an historical context.
some of you all are clearly too PC or are incapable of constructive discussion!
"yes, as i stated, race is a social construct that has no basis in science"
What if I start by denying the assertion above ? I don't believe that "race has no basis in science".
For sure, race is also social, but to say that race has nothing to do with biological diversity is nonsense, imho.
I have good reasons to think what I think but I certainly don't expect to change anyone's mind on race.
Anyways, the topic is radioactive and you're naive for thinking it can be discussed on here.
Could you explain your idea of a constructive contribution? Would that be selecting a particular race and insisting that it is and has been superior to others?
Your thread title is "Historically most sucessful 'race", yet you failed to offer your choice for the historically most successful race. Instead you want others to do the heavy lifting for you.
Rather than lecture others on constructive contributions, why do you not lead by example? Where is your answer to the question you posed? Or are you just as "PC" as you claim everyone else is?
i gave examples of how each 'race' could be considered the most historically successful depending on how success is defined, which again is different from what you and others are citing as currently superior - as a way to try and derail any possible constructive debate.
again, this is in an historical context! its not meant to lament any contemporaneous judgement on any particular race today; which as i tried to exaplain in the OP is purely a social construct in the first place!
and if you need know, in my OP, my stratification was from most conclusive argument for success to least IMO. from a biological standpoint, the more of a population the more successful. since Asians and Asian derived people make up nearly 2/3 of the human population, i would classify them as historically the most successful 'race'.
since Asians and Asian derived people make up nearly 2/3 of the human population, i would classify them as historically the most successful 'race'.
If your standard then is that breeding constitutes success, then all that is required is counting.
In your OP you listed other forms of success, hegemony, physical strength, but then you did not provide us with arguments or reasons as to why those attributes are less vital to success than your choice of breeding.
Why don't you explain why sheer numbers trumps all else?
"yes, as i stated, race is a social construct that has no basis in science"
What if I start by denying the assertion above ? I don't believe that "race has no basis in science". For sure, race is also social, but to say that race has nothing to do with biological diversity is nonsense, imho.
I have good reasons to think what I think but I certainly don't expect to change anyone's mind on race.
Anyways, the topic is radioactive and you're naive for thinking it can be discussed on here.
The human races ('white/caucasian', 'black/African', etc.) have no biological basis.
Biologically define, for example, the black race. Well? You can't. You can define a biological race - taxonomists do this all the time. To say that there are biological differences between one given white person and one given black person, and that this means there is a biological basis to human races, profoundly misunderstands the situation.
Name a single gene that all white people possess and that no black people possess. Well? You can't there isn't one. Not one.
Why?
Because race in terms of the human races is a social construct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander
If your standard then is that breeding constitutes success, then all that is required is counting.
Yep.
By that standard, North Koreans are more 'successful' as a collective group than, say, Norwegians. Odd idea of success, that.
The human races ('white/caucasian', 'black/African', etc.) have no biological basis.
Biologically define, for example, the black race. Well? You can't. You can define a biological race - taxonomists do this all the time. To say that there are biological differences between one given white person and one given black person, and that this means there is a biological basis to human races, profoundly misunderstands the situation.
Name a single gene that all white people possess and that no black people possess. Well? You can't there isn't one. Not one.
Why?
Because race in terms of the human races is a social construct.
I guess that I'm of the same race as my parents because we've been "socialized" the same way and not because I'm genetically related to them or anything like that.
If your standard then is that breeding constitutes success, then all that is required is counting.
In your OP you listed other forms of success, hegemony, physical strength, but then you did not provide us with arguments or reasons as to why those attributes are less vital to success than your choice of breeding.
Why don't you explain why sheer numbers trumps all else?
again, from a biological perspective, sheer numbers do define success.
if i were to focus more on hegemony, then Caucasions would be considered more historically successful.
if i were to focus soley on physicallity/athletic prowess, i could easily argue Negroid derived peoples as most succesful.
I guess that I'm of the same race as my parents because we've been "socialized" the same way and not because I'm genetically related to them or anything like that.
from a scientific standpoint, a race or species is defined as two 'individuals', from a given population, ability to mate and produce fertile offspring. hence there is only one human race; we can all make love and babies together.
as a social construct, 'race' is much more complex...
OK, then I'll spare you the PC blurb and give it to you straight. A topic such as the one you posted can only be best described as "troll bait". Such a topic even if attempted to be discussed in a calm and logical manner will invariably draw all of the "whackos" out of the closet to join in and derail this into nothing but a race baiting, mud slinging, celebration of stupidity and the lowest common denominator. That's assuming the conspiracy theory junkies don't jump in with their own crackpot versions of events and steer the thread completely off-topic before it even gets into the racial supremacy rants.
There are plenty of forums where one could engage in this discussion, but many of them will have an obvious bias. Stormfront is one possible choice, but you will most likely just get lists of why "white" people are superior to all others. Similarly one could jump on an Afrocentric site and get lists of why "black" people are superior to all others. Just that simple paragraph right there will most likely draw the ire of some because I compared afrocentrists to white supremacists...
Regardless of all of that, you would first need to get everyone to agree on a definition of "succesful" to even have the discussion. Since that in and of itself is impossible, the entire thread is basically over even before it really starts.
then you would have very little true discussions in your life, based on your very broad limitations.
if you allow the lowest common denominator to already control the playing field before the game has even begun, well then you've admitted defeat very prematurely...
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