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Old 06-19-2014, 10:07 AM
 
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Another big problem was the lack of public support for another European war. FDR was up for election in 1940 and won because he promised NOT to get involved. The other candidate had was more against than FDR.
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Old 06-19-2014, 11:59 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
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Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Another consideration is that the US was building all those planes in 1940.. We didn't really have our infrastructure built up at that time.. We were ramping it up.. But it wasn't 'ready' at that time. "What ifs" are impossible to know for sure, however.. My feeling, entering in 1939 or 40, more than anything would have just meant more US casualties. Not a quicker end to the war.

No it wasn't. That was Roosevelt talking to make Churchill feel better. It didn't even approach 50K until 1942.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: Wartime Production
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Central Nebraska
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Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
It was clear the USA was going to be in WW2 in 1939/40. The top US politicos knew this. When France was falling, in May 1940 Roosevelt announced the USA was to make an amazing 50,000 planes per year.
There was insufficient public support at that time. The only reason Roosevelt was able to get such production as he did was by saying it would go to others to fight so we wouldn't have to and by using the rest for deterant effect so that we could back up our neutrality with armed might.
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Old 06-19-2014, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Central Nebraska
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Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
Then, would Germany have invaded the USSR? The USSR was supplying Germany who were facing the British Empire and the USA. Would they have been so cavalier to invade?
Probably. Familiar with European industrial production, very competant German industrial experts dismissed as fantacy the announced goal of American wartime production and considered it nothing more than propaganda and bravado. But the Great Depression had been far deeper in America than in Europe and American industry had been forced to find ways of being more effecient than the Europeans. Also, the Germans completely underestimated Rosie the Rivitter. Putting women in factories was so far removed from the Ideals of Teutonic Womanhood that the Germans wouldn't go there. Oh they had no problem with putting captive women from concentration camps into factories--but these slave women performed poorly compared to free German men and much of what they did produce was defective, so to the Germans it only underscored that women could not replace men in factories.

America had to get its Army across the ocean first and Hitler was confidant his U-boats could stop them. In fact, it was Hitler who declared war on America and he was quite ecstatic at the propsect his submarines could now begin attacking the convoys within sight of the American Mainland rather than waiting for them to get halfway across the ocean first. It would be at least a year before we'd have enough men across the ocean to consider even a small landing on Fortress Europe--and by then Hitler expected to have Moscow!

America was expected to play only a supporting role much as we had done in World War I. Even we assumed we'd opperate under the command of a British General and the British had to inform us that since the bulk of the Allied Forces would be Americans the British would be under our command!

I don't think America's earlier entry into the war would have changed Hitler's plans much.
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Old 06-19-2014, 04:11 PM
 
Location: London
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Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
No it wasn't. That was Roosevelt talking to make Churchill feel better. It didn't even approach 50K until 1942.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: Wartime Production
You should read your own links and read what I wrote. In 1942 the USA produced 49,000 planes the year Germany knew these planes were coming online. The maximum the USA reached was 96,000 in one year with UK production of over 26,000 on top of that. So Roosevelt was right and so was Hitler.

Last edited by John-UK; 06-19-2014 at 04:43 PM..
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Old 06-19-2014, 04:13 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
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Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
You should read your own links and read what I wrote. In 1942 the USA produced 49,000 planes the year Germany knew these planes were coming online. The maximum the USA reached 96,000 in one year with UK production of over 26,000 on top of that. So Roosevelt was right and so was Hitler.
I did read my links. You postulated 1939/40. Another poster claimed 50K in those years. All I did was show that number was incorrect. The bulk of the 1942 number was in the last half of he year. Civilian cars continued being produced into the late Spring.
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Old 06-19-2014, 04:36 PM
 
Location: London
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Originally Posted by CAllenDoudna View Post
Probably. Familiar with European industrial production, very competant German industrial experts dismissed as fantacy the announced goal of American wartime production and considered it nothing more than propaganda and bravado.
Quite the opposite. The Germans knew the industrial capability of the USA and its "Fordism". This prompted them to invade the USSR as they knew 50,000 planes a year were coming their way.
Quote:
But the Great Depression had been far deeper in America than in Europe and American industry had been forced to find ways of being more effecient than the Europeans.
Demands for materials from the UK and France dragged the USA out of the depression pre 1939 and until June 1940. The USA allowed the UK to approach US companies to manufacture arms by-passing the US government - that is how the P-51 Mustang came about which was essentially a British plane made by a US company.
Quote:
America had to get its Army across the ocean first and Hitler was confidant his U-boats could stop them.
In May 1940 the German had few U-Boats. Aml Reader was not confident they could outstrip allied shipbuilding. He was tight. US and UK yards were building ship far faster than what Germany could sink them. The new ships were "fast". Fast enough to outrun many U-Boats.
Quote:
In fact, it was Hitler who declared war on America and he was quite ecstatic at the propsect his submarines could now begin attacking the convoys within sight of the American Mainland rather than waiting for them to get halfway across the ocean first.
The U-Boats sank about 600 US ship in the first six months of 1942 off the US eastern seaboard. This was because some idiot US Adml called King would not protect convoys to the rage of the Brits, who even offered corvettes.

The US had enough men to help out in the desert, which would have made a difference to secure the southern Med coast and keep Italy out of WW2. In WW1 US troops little difference to the fighting getting involved after the final French/British push. It was the thought of facing another army, green or not, that swayed the Germans to talk peace. The thought of facing large UK and US armies with massive air forces may have made Hitler think differently.
Quote:
America was expected to play only a supporting role much as we had done in World War I. Even we assumed we'd opperate under the command of a British General and the British had to inform us that since the bulk of the Allied Forces would be Americans the British would be under our command!
The numbers were not clear when Churchill suggested that a US man be in charge - it was to tempt the US to go for Germany First. Quite clever.

Thea earliest Hitler could invade the USSR was mid 1941. The decision was only made in February 1941. The last thing Germany wanted was to do was fight on two fronts. Barbarossa took all of Germany's reserves. They eve dragged skilled men from factories. When attacking the USSR it was possible the UK/US could launch an invasion of France having such a combined massive naval and air fleets that was feasible indeed. They could have at least made the impression they were mustering forces to do so.

What would be open to Hitler knowing he could not invade the USSR and the UK/US waiting to invade? And Italy out of the war as well.
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Old 06-19-2014, 04:42 PM
 
Location: London
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Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
I did read my links. You postulated 1939/40. Another poster claimed 50K in those years. All I did was show that number was incorrect. The bulk of the 1942 number was in the last half of he year. Civilian cars continued being produced into the late Spring.
I clearly stated that Roosevelt stated in May 1940 that the US was to make 50,000 planes per year. Hitler knew they would come online in mid 1942. He was bang on!
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Old 06-19-2014, 04:46 PM
 
Location: London
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Originally Posted by CAllenDoudna View Post
There was insufficient public support at that time.
Its a What If.
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Old 06-19-2014, 04:49 PM
 
Location: London
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Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Another consideration is that the US was building all those planes in 1940.. We didn't really have our infrastructure built up at that time.. We were ramping it up.. But it wasn't 'ready' at that time. "What ifs" are impossible to know for sure, however.. My feeling, entering in 1939 or 40, more than anything would have just meant more US casualties. Not a quicker end to the war.
It would have kept Italy out of the war and secured the southern Med coast. It would have made Hitler think about invading the USSR as he would be fighting two front war.
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