Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ireland is a part of the British Isles and was not a colony. Irish MPs sat in Parliament in London, voting on UK matters. It was wrong to have allowed it to go as the people are well intermixed. It would be like allowing Georgia to go from the USA. More should have been done to give Ireland more autonomy.
The Irish themselves seem to have held different opinion, given the uprising of 1916 and other events. And certainly Ireland during Potato hunger was treated like a colony ?
Irish MPs in London were outnumbered and unable to do much to further Irish interests.
As it was Irish Catholics were allowed to vote for their MP's, but Catholics were not allowed to run for office. So, all MP's representing Ireland were Protestants as were all of the lords. These people were almost universally descended from Englishman or were overt supporters of English rule to begin with. I'm sure the people of Ireland truly felt "represented"...
It sounds like the algerians and the Irish had alot in common. Both peoples could benefit from being affiliated with a democratic, economically advanced nation. Both could observe the democratic process, but not truly participate in it (except for a small number of locals who acted, looked and thought just like French/Englishmen and who were also predisposed to affirm their continued rule).
In return, the Irish and Algerians were expected to "know their place" and to "go with the program". The British and French "program" were not really oppressive by global standards and included some very tangible benefits.
My guess is that literacy forced the British and French to leave. Growing literacy in 1920s Ireland and 1950s Algeria, led to more and more locals realizing that they were second or third class citizens and then refusing to go with "the program" even if the program brought some real benefits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK
From memory, the Irish were in proportion to their numbers. The Parliament of Ireland was abolished and replaced by the Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland in I think 1800, adding 100 Irish MPs and 32 Lords.
Were the Irish considred British citizens at this time (with full right of re location and employment to say, Liverpool), or were they considered some sort of "over seas national" with out automtic residency / employment rights in Britain?
Were the Irish considred British citizens at this time (with full right of re location and employment to say, Liverpool), or were they considered some sort of "over seas national" with out automtic residency / employment rights in Britain?
The Irish themselves seem to have held different opinion, given the uprising of 1916 and other events. And certainly Ireland during Potato hunger was treated like a colony ?
Irish MPs in London were outnumbered and unable to do much to further Irish interests.
Ireland is a part of the British Isles and was not a colony. Irish MPs sat in Parliament in London, voting on UK matters.. That is clear.
Ireland is a part of the British Isles and was not a colony. Irish MPs sat in Parliament in London, voting on UK matters.. That is clear.
But they had little say in the Irish matters. And the Irish certainly weren't treated as equals, certainly not on the level of English or Scotts.
It's like the UK sending a dozen representatives to some hypothetical Pan European council of 400 seats, where 200 seats are held by the French and Germans, and giving up your sovereignty in the process. Yes you get to vote on important issues that concern the whole of Europe, hooray. But you're too few to make a real difference and you have lost control of your own land.
England gave up its colonies without a fight? Maybe recently, but the North American colony was not allowed to leave peacefully. Nor was Kenya.
Back to France and the Vietnam debacle. The Michelin Company had huge rubber plantations throughout Indochina. The products (latex rubber) and profits were considered necessary to keep France from becoming a Left wing country. We supplied much of the military hardware mostly in order to keep our war industry from collapsing after the WW2 production was no longer needed. The war industry investors in this country needed production and profit and the result has been our never ending war.
I suppose the huge and unsupported ego of Charles de Gaul aka Charles the France was probably also a factor.
But they had little say in the Irish matters. And the Irish certainly weren't treated as equals, certainly not on the level of English or Scotts.
Nonsense. The Irish had their own parliament. Then they moved to the UK parliament. They had a say in Irish matters. The UK NEVER had separate parliaments then. It was for the whole of the UK. There was no parliament to deal with just Irish matters as there was none for Scotland, England or Wales either. There is still no English parliament.
England gave up its colonies without a fight? Maybe recently, but the North American colony was not allowed to leave peacefully. Nor was Kenya.
No one took the colony from the empire. The British left a colony in good shape on independence. Of course man screwed the lot up. Kenya left peacefully. The majority of the whites in the civil war in British America were not for a breakaway. Only the assistance of the Spanish and French enabled the whites to breakaway. The British gave up as it was not worth it. If they wanted the colonies to remain they would have kept them. They were economically a drain. Britain earned more from Jamaica than from the 13 colonies.
I
My guess is that literacy forced the British and French to leave. Growing literacy in 1920s Ireland and 1950s Algeria, led to more and more locals realizing that they were second or third class citizens and then refusing to go with "the program" even if the program brought some real benefits.
Oh, I don't think that is all that significant a factor. France has always had a very bloody, violent track record in Algeria almost from the get-go, and really only the elite natives and the pied-noirs had some benefits for going along with the "program".
Ireland had already been agitating for independence well before the 1920s (does Bloody Sunday in 1916 ring a bell?).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
