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View Poll Results: Do you think that the Allies were responsible for World War II?
Yes 13 18.06%
No 59 81.94%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-20-2014, 08:41 PM
 
1,028 posts, read 1,121,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
That is what allowed the infamous Nazi-Soviet Pact that allowed Hitler to finish off Poland and then turn his entire army westward against France.
I can say why USSR signed this pact. Russia needed at least a few years to get Red Army ready for the german invasion. And Russia was ready declare war on Germany in 1939 if France and England would attacked Germany from the West. But this didn't happened and Russia needed to somehow protect itself from the german threat.

Nobody wanted to fight against Hitler and he was crafty enough to know this fact and use it.
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Old 11-21-2014, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,804,086 times
Reputation: 14116
Quote:
Originally Posted by fellowjoe View Post
Well, I think they were to blame.

Hitler would not have been able to rise to power in Germany if not for the harsh and unfair terms imposed by the Western Allies in the Treaty of Versailles.

Fascism would perhaps not have gained much momentum in Italy if the Allies did not renege on their promise of all the territorial gains that Italy would receive for intervention in the First World War on their side.

Japan would not have headed down the path of militarism if not for racist or discriminatory policies that the Western Allies adopted against the Japanese (i.e. strict US immigration policies, rejection of the Racial Equality Clause).

What do you think?
You wouldn't have thought the Versailles treaty was "harsh and unfair" if the the memories of the trenches were still fresh in your mind. You would have felt like quite the humanitarian to have let Germany continue to exist as a nation at all.

As for the Japanese, it wasn't discrimination. If anything, Japan was doing the discrimination against other Asians. There's a reason why the Chinese and Koreans aren't too fond of the Japanese even today; their history of animosity goes back to the days when most Northern Europeans were living in tribes out in the woods and reached epic proportions when Japan invaded Manchuria well before WW2. Even before that, Korea was a Japanese Colony and the Koreans suffered greatly because of it.

If anything, WW2 was the result of a sort of a push-and-shove feedback loop which resulted in the creation of upstart powers determined to weaken and/or replace the "powers that be" with their own ideology. This happened in all three Axis powers.

As is usually the case, there were wrong perpetrated on both sides of the argument before it exploded into total war. The allies aren't blameless, but they didn't fire the first shot and probably wouldn't have so the Axis clearly deserved the burden of the blame.
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Old 11-21-2014, 11:59 AM
 
1,600 posts, read 1,887,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
You wouldn't have thought the Versailles treaty was "harsh and unfair" if the the memories of the trenches were still fresh in your mind. You would have felt like quite the humanitarian to have let Germany continue to exist as a nation at all.

As for the Japanese, it wasn't discrimination. If anything, Japan was doing the discrimination against other Asians. There's a reason why the Chinese and Koreans aren't too fond of the Japanese even today; their history of animosity goes back to the days when most Northern Europeans were living in tribes out in the woods and reached epic proportions when Japan invaded Manchuria well before WW2. Even before that, Korea was a Japanese Colony and the Koreans suffered greatly because of it.

If anything, WW2 was the result of a sort of a push-and-shove feedback loop which resulted in the creation of upstart powers determined to weaken and/or replace the "powers that be" with their own ideology. This happened in all three Axis powers.

As is usually the case, there were wrong perpetrated on both sides of the argument before it exploded into total war. The allies aren't blameless, but they didn't fire the first shot and probably wouldn't have so the Axis clearly deserved the burden of the blame.
Not to defend Japan, but if I remember well the only Japanese excursion outside their island before modernization was in 1592 with the Imjin War.
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Old 11-21-2014, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,804,086 times
Reputation: 14116
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander.XVII View Post
Not to defend Japan, but if I remember well the only Japanese excursion outside their island before modernization was in 1592 with the Imjin War.
Japan only modernized in the 1870s and there was a long peace before but Imjin wasn't the only time ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Japan )and Korea was a Japanese colony at the turn of the century. They didn't get control of it through outright invasion but through nefarious treaties and "gunboat diplomacy". Manchuria on the other hand was an all-out military invasion that was extremely brutal and perverse.
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Old 11-21-2014, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Taipei
8,863 posts, read 8,434,218 times
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Japan wanted a Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. With Japanese Empire being the center(Japan, Korea, Taiwan) and everybody else. It's very Hunger Games. That concept even included Australia and New Zealand.

I guess it more or less contained racism, but their military ambition and deluded prospects played the more prominent part.
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Old 11-23-2014, 01:39 PM
 
360 posts, read 982,189 times
Reputation: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
You wouldn't have thought the Versailles treaty was "harsh and unfair" if the the memories of the trenches were still fresh in your mind. You would have felt like quite the humanitarian to have let Germany continue to exist as a nation at all.

As for the Japanese, it wasn't discrimination. If anything, Japan was doing the discrimination against other Asians. There's a reason why the Chinese and Koreans aren't too fond of the Japanese even today; their history of animosity goes back to the days when most Northern Europeans were living in tribes out in the woods and reached epic proportions when Japan invaded Manchuria well before WW2. Even before that, Korea was a Japanese Colony and the Koreans suffered greatly because of it.

If anything, WW2 was the result of a sort of a push-and-shove feedback loop which resulted in the creation of upstart powers determined to weaken and/or replace the "powers that be" with their own ideology. This happened in all three Axis powers.

As is usually the case, there were wrong perpetrated on both sides of the argument before it exploded into total war. The allies aren't blameless, but they didn't fire the first shot and probably wouldn't have so the Axis clearly deserved the burden of the blame.
No matter how brutal the First World War might be, Germany wasn't theirs to take away anyway. Taking away German territory would clearly contradict the idea of self-determination that was put forth in 1919.

I don't deny that Japan has not fully come to terms with her wartime past like Germany did. But unlike majority of European nations that were formerly occupied by Germany, China and South Korea are fast becoming some of the world's greatest economic powerhouses. These European countries (with the except of maybe France and the UK) have nothing much to lose from reconciliation with Germany, and actually even benefit more from it, since Germany has been playing the central role in sustaining the viability of EU.

On the other hand, there is no such political or economic integration in East Asia but rather, competition especially between China and Japan for regional leadership in Asia. When such conflict arises, the Chinese government would not hesitate to use the history card against Japan to bolster its domestic legitimacy.
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Old 11-23-2014, 05:39 PM
 
1,600 posts, read 1,887,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fellowjoe View Post
No matter how brutal the First World War might be, Germany wasn't theirs to take away anyway. Taking away German territory would clearly contradict the idea of self-determination that was put forth in 1919.

I don't deny that Japan has not fully come to terms with her wartime past like Germany did. But unlike majority of European nations that were formerly occupied by Germany, China and South Korea are fast becoming some of the world's greatest economic powerhouses. These European countries (with the except of maybe France and the UK) have nothing much to lose from reconciliation with Germany, and actually even benefit more from it, since Germany has been playing the central role in sustaining the viability of EU.

On the other hand, there is no such political or economic integration in East Asia but rather, competition especially between China and Japan for regional leadership in Asia. When such conflict arises, the Chinese government would not hesitate to use the history card against Japan to bolster its domestic legitimacy.
Most German territories taken away were done so after a Plebiscite or were Polish majority, exceptions being Alsace-Lorraine (which had been French for 300 years and seemingly had no desire of being Germany and of which France had been deprived) and Danzig (which technically was a "free" city-state).
Brest-Litovsk treaty was much harsher in terms of losses and compensation.
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Old 11-24-2014, 01:51 PM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,665,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Not really possible to provide a definitive answer, but we do have the example of the British hegemony over India and the Dutch hegemony in Indonesia, neither of which seemed to constitute anything alarming to the US.

For racism to have been a factor for the Japanese, we only actually require their perception that they were being treated as some sort of junior partner, and that perception was certainly there.
Both of the examples (British and Dutch) are based on situations that existed long before the US had any vested interest in the area itself. If anything, the US was the "new player" on the Pacific stage in comparison to the British and Dutch.

As for the last part, touche. I never really considered that aspect. It doesn't matter if Party A's decision is or is not being made due to racism. It is simply a matter of whether or not Party B feels that such racist intents exist. So, since the Japanese felt that racism was driving the decisions being made by the US, Britain, etc. racism was part of the equation, even if the western powers were simply defending their interests and influence.
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Old 11-30-2014, 05:33 AM
 
Location: Almería, Spain
10 posts, read 15,883 times
Reputation: 15
Hitler lost the war because he tried to conquer Russia ...during winter HAHAHAHHAHAHA ****ing retard
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Old 12-02-2014, 06:00 PM
 
1,418 posts, read 2,545,603 times
Reputation: 806
While the focus is on Germany and Japan, we forget to realize that the British still had colonies and were actively crushing rebellions and Independent movements.
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