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1944 after Stalin kicked out the Reich and started to get his tanks and personnel and NKVD moving West again. I'll add that the deportations were from the Lemko and Chelm areas. Later on the leaders of the Greek Catholic Church were imprisoned off to the Gulag.
And on 'minding the Germans much...
Well really Bandera found himself between a rock and a hard place. Throughout the war we can see the complicated 'collaborative' relationships that developed themselves as the war went on Ukrainian vs Pole, Russian vs Ukrainian, Russian vs Pole.
From the get go of Bandera's nationalist movement it was probably preordained that there was absolutely no way it would succeed in the face of Russian aggression coming from the East and German aggression from the West. From all that arguably Ukraine really was probably the most destroyed country in the war. Let's put it another way. Their fate was always at the hands of two rabid tigers. And history has shown they feasted dreadfully on the meat.
To understand Russian-Ukrainian and let's throw in Polish relationships in history requires a somewhat modified view of what type of 'collaborations' we're talking about. Not so simple.
It is very complicated history.
As a Western Ukrainian by origin, and born in Siberia in the family of persecuted, in 1947, OP, here's answer to you Q.
NO. And this is coming from a person that considers himself a patriot and wishes well to his Motherland.
Any ex catedra announcements of any independence are idle air waves, if they are not supported by true independance economically, financially, politically, nationally, religiously, spiritually, legally and militarily. And this NEVER happened to UKRAINE. Even when it was boastingly pronounced in what, 1990? Or 93? That country was never independent and does its best to never be. All they - well, their rulers - do, is look from one master and oppressor to another.
Someone mentioned Poland here.. I'll quote my Grandmother, who survived Gulag at its worst. She said - Always remember - I lived amongst Russians, and Mongols, and Chinese - but there never was a worst enemy to a Ukrainian, than Polak. Btw, I', half Polish by blood, and yet I do concur. Bydlo, cattle, that's what we were considered. So yes, Western Ukraine, go back to those who plundered and slaughtered you for centuries.
What are the biggest, strongest, best ties between humans anywhere in the world? Those are FAMILY ties. And family is not Polaks and Ukrainians. Family is Ukrainians and Russians. BY BLOOD and SPIRIT, Ukraine will be much better off with Russia, than be a NATO lapdog.
1944 after Stalin kicked out the Reich and started to get his tanks and personnel and NKVD moving West again. I'll add that the deportations were from the Lemko and Chelm areas. Later on the leaders of the Greek Catholic Church were imprisoned off to the Gulag.
Yes, everyone Stalin deemed "suspicious" and I'd guess the same policies were carried out towards Balts. After the mortal threat that his state went during the WWII I can see why he wouldn't want to take any chances.
Quote:
And on 'minding the Germans much...
Well really Bandera found himself between a rock and a hard place. Throughout the war we can see the complicated 'collaborative' relationships that developed themselves as the war went on Ukrainian vs Pole, Russian vs Ukrainian, Russian vs Pole.
From the get go of Bandera's nationalist movement it was probably preordained that there was absolutely no way it would succeed in the face of Russian aggression coming from the East and German aggression from the West. From all that arguably Ukraine really was probably the most destroyed country in the war. Let's put it another way. Their fate was always at the hands of two rabid tigers. And history has shown they feasted dreadfully on the meat.
To understand Russian-Ukrainian and let's throw in Polish relationships in history requires a somewhat modified view of what type of 'collaborations' we're talking about. Not so simple.
It is very complicated history.
I am not sure what's so "complicated" about it.
When you are the remnant of a culture whose development ( as much as the "center" of it) moved elsewhere ( in this particular case Eastwards,) you become the easy prey of other nations living in the vicinity - be that Poles or Germans, who will want to take advantage of you, to look down at you, to convert you - whatever. And you can argue all you want about "how different you are comparably to the "other part" of your culture ( i.e. Russians in this case,) and how deserving you are, and what "great future" you have... The truth is - there is no future for you, and you are no different from other suffering population of Russia to her authorites, as "special" as you pretend to be.
Poland didn't invite Putin to attend commemoration of liberation of Auschwitz because of Ukraine.
(An awkward situation, since it was liberated by the Soviet Army.)
Re " Polish - Ukrainian relations ....better now than before.
Perhaps next up Russian-Ukrainian 'reconciliation'?
The Pole/Ukrainian linkup might put erasure's comment about things being not so 'complicated' there into another light that perhaps success there can be had in spite of the brutal history between them.
Unfortunate though that the 'game' there is like those whack-a-mole games found at amusement parks where you bang one mole down with a hammer and it you know it doesn't go away but pops up somewhere else. Question is is it possible to get Russia and Ukraine at a table for a sit-down? Perhaps too early though. Wounds are bleeding bad.
Well say that to the US newsmakers, or do you think I am citing "RT"?
I'm speaking about the Ukraine-Russo-Polish attitudes specifically, instead of through whose prism of any TV.
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