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Old 03-20-2015, 10:26 AM
 
12,717 posts, read 18,848,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
US Army troops in Iraq - I believe this photo was taken during the immediate aftermath of the fall of Saddam's regime (ie: spring/summer 2003), it appears to be a crowd control incident.
My guess is on that last picture the troops are guarding prisoners. Soldiers generally don't like bayonets fixed because it adds extra weight at the muzzle where they don't want it, and makes aiming awkward. But I've seen many combat pictures of soldiers with fixed bayonets that are on prisoner guard duty. Incidently soldiers are more likely to use their rifles as clubs in melee combat, even when bayonets are available.

The last recorded mass bayonet charge, rather then individual melee confrontations, I think was by a charge of British soldiers in Falklands and that was mentioned in an above post.
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Old 03-20-2015, 10:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
My guess is on that last picture the troops are guarding prisoners. Soldiers generally don't like bayonets fixed because it adds extra weight at the muzzle where they don't want it, and makes aiming awkward. But I've seen many combat pictures of soldiers with fixed bayonets that are on prisoner guard duty. Incidently soldiers are more likely to use their rifles as clubs in melee combat, even when bayonets are available.

The last recorded mass bayonet charge, rather then individual melee confrontations, I think was by a charge of British soldiers in Falklands and that was mentioned in an above post.
The bayonet has a special place in the British military psyche:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhWlAKdlQp4
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
My guess is on that last picture the troops are guarding prisoners. Soldiers generally don't like bayonets fixed because it adds extra weight at the muzzle where they don't want it, and makes aiming awkward.
IT MAKES AIMING EASY!!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
But I've seen many combat pictures of soldiers with fixed bayonets that are on prisoner guard duty. Incidently soldiers are more likely to use their rifles as clubs in melee combat, even when bayonets are available.
That is incorrect. What you re refereeing to is called a butt stroke and depending on the weapon can be very devastating. We had an LT who was but stroked by accident in training and was walking around with this metal HALO thing on his heat/shoulder for at least 6 months!

But ideally you finish off anything with a nice bayonet jab when they are down before moving on.

Also entrenching tools are a good hand to hand weapon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post

The last recorded mass bayonet charge, rather then individual melee confrontations, I think was by a charge of British soldiers in Falklands and that was mentioned in an above post.
WHAT'S THE SPIRIT OF THE BAYONET?!!?!!??
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Old 03-20-2015, 01:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
IT MAKES AIMING EASY!!!!!!!

That is incorrect. What you re refereeing to is called a butt stroke and depending on the weapon can be very devastating. We had an LT who was but stroked by accident in training and was walking around with this metal HALO thing on his heat/shoulder for at least 6 months!

But ideally you finish off anything with a nice bayonet jab when they are down before moving on.
How can a bayonet make aiming easy? It throws off the weight and balance of the weapon. Although that may be more relevant to older long rifles and muskets rather than today's shorter assault weapons.

For your second paragraph...what exactly is incorrect about using a rifle as a club? I don't follow. You follow by contradicting yourself with the "butt stroke" comment for "devastating" blunt force trauma - yeah, that's called using the rifle as, well, as A CLUB in the English language.

Last edited by Dd714; 03-20-2015 at 01:49 PM..
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Old 03-20-2015, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
How can a bayonet make aiming easy? It throws off the weight and balance of the weapon. Although that may be more relevant to older long rifles and muskets rather than today's shorter assault weapons.
Because when you stick it something it makes it really hard to miss!!!

Also it does depend on the weapon. I have carried the M-14 and M-16. For the M-14 it would help to keep the muzzle from rising. The M-16 with bayonet is lighter than the M-14 without. The problem with the bayonet is more in the movement. It sticks out past the barrel and gets caught on things....even your friends!

Balance is not as important as you would hope to get into an improves or prone fighting position. Though it could be a factor.

Personally I was never of the one shot one kill school. I was of the 30 shots and one effed up OPFOR school. Bullets are cheaper than training a new me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
For your second paragraph...what exactly is incorrect about using a rifle as a club? I don't follow. You follow by contradicting yourself with the "butt stroke" comment for "devastating" blunt force trauma - yeah, that's called using the rifle as, well, as A CLUB.
The way you hold it. Traditionally a club is held from one end. The rifle would be held in the middle with two hands that are apart, similar to most spears. This makes it easier to move and hit with either end.
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Old 03-20-2015, 01:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
Because when you stick it something it makes it really hard to miss!!!

Also it does depend on the weapon. I have carried the M-14 and M-16. For the M-14 it would help to keep the muzzle from rising. The M-16 with bayonet is lighter than the M-14 without. The problem with the bayonet is more in the movement. It sticks out past the barrel and gets caught on things....even your friends!

The way you hold it. Traditionally a club is held from one end. The rifle would be held in the middle with two hands that are apart, similar to most spears. This makes it easier to move and hit with either end.
HAHAHA....Ok I like your first sentence. And I get the rest. Fair comments.
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Old 03-25-2015, 09:53 AM
 
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Re: 'What's the Spirit of the Bayonet'

You know its perception is not only from a military view but also from a political one as well.

Elting, in that great book ' Swords Around the Throne' also cited by another poster, noted that in the French Revolution Paris politicians 'practically made a cult out of the bayonet attack'. In that instance the bayonet symbolized the 'patriotic zeal of the free citizen- soldiers'.

French commanders and armies at that time saw the bayonet charge as a big decisive finish after they softened up the enemy lines with musket and artllery fire.
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Old 03-28-2015, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
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Old Guard has apparently been there and done that. So have a lot of us. Don't care to talk about it.
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:14 PM
 
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I am watching Outlander on Starz right now, and they are depicting the Battle of Culloden. The fight scenes are basically bayonets, and sabres, and sickles, and long knives, clubs etc, etc. Is this true?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Culloden
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
Or the plan was to conduct either a bayonet charge or last ditch defense. So when was the last time orders were issued to unload so that soldiers wouldn't stop to shoot rather than go into the melee?



We were told if your bayonet was hard to pull out of the enemy... just fire off a round and that would get it loose........
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