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Old 09-14-2017, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Elysium
6,859 posts, read 3,861,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunner View Post
We were told if your bayonet was hard to pull out of the enemy... just fire off a round and that would get it loose........
I can see that but if you are bitting the cartridge pouring powder and spitting the round down the barrel not loading prevents you from stopping for 20 seconds to reload thus losing the shock effects of a melee bayonet charge
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Old 09-15-2017, 08:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
I can see that but if you are bitting the cartridge pouring powder and spitting the round down the barrel not loading prevents you from stopping for 20 seconds to reload thus losing the shock effects of a melee bayonet charge

Bayonets from that period were mainly tapered and triangular...........much easier to pull free.....
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Elysium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunner View Post
Bayonets from that period were mainly tapered and triangular...........much easier to pull free.....
That reminds me because of a First Sergeant getting injured in a soldiers fight our brigade commander banned all knives. When he was relieved by the new brigade commander he ordered all of us to go through bayonet training even though most of us were issued a M1911 pistol or a M3 grease gun at the time. I had recently gone to the brigade staff and was issued a M16 for the first time since basic training and that day was my bayonet training, not counting riot control training one day while in the National Guard
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Old 09-15-2017, 11:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
I am watching Outlander on Starz right now, and they are depicting the Battle of Culloden. The fight scenes are basically bayonets, and sabres, and sickles, and long knives, clubs etc, etc. Is this true?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Culloden
I visited the site of the Battle of Culloden in Scotland about ten years ago. They have mounds where the Scots are buried, the English basically given no quarter.

I'm sure the wiki site indicates it but the English used muskets with bayonets and the Scots had there heavy claymore swords and a shield. The Brits were each instructed to stab out to the enemy to the right of them (or left, can't remember) were the enemy was unprotected by either sword and shield, very effective.
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Old 09-18-2017, 12:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
I visited the site of the Battle of Culloden in Scotland about ten years ago. They have mounds where the Scots are buried, the English basically given no quarter.

I'm sure the wiki site indicates it but the English used muskets with bayonets and the Scots had there heavy claymore swords and a shield. The Brits were each instructed to stab out to the enemy to the right of them (or left, can't remember) were the enemy was unprotected by either sword and shield, very effective.
If in Melee combat, I imagine the shield bearer has tremendous advantage over those that have bayonets, which essentially is a short spear.
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
If in Melee combat, I imagine the shield bearer has tremendous advantage over those that have bayonets, which essentially is a short spear.
Usually yeah. A highland charge is a fearsome thing. But the British soldier of that age was highly trained and disciplined...right before the charge he step one pace to the right and stab to the enemy on the right while the enemy is preparing to deflect a bayonet plunge from the font. Must take nerves of steel because the English also rely on your fellow soldier to the left to do the same to the enemy to your front at the exact same time.
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Old 09-23-2017, 07:31 AM
 
Location: france
709 posts, read 398,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunner View Post
We were told if your bayonet was hard to pull out of the enemy... just fire off a round and that would get it loose........
What's the point of the use of a bayonet if you still have ammo?
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Elysium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
What's the point of the use of a bayonet if you still have ammo?
Shock effect. The difference between a tank sniping at you from ranges unseen by human eyes and seeing tons of metal about to run you over. In the first case many will stand and fight when in the second will break and run. In the last cases of planned bayonet charges the order was given for the same reason that they were in the age of muzzle loading muskets when sometimes the commanders started the battle with weapons unloaded to keep the shock going by running through the enemy instead of stopping to fire and reload.

Now most military weapons issued since around 1960 with detached pistol grips are not design with bayonet fighting as an important feature. You could say the capability was maintained for traditional reasons.
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Old 09-23-2017, 11:43 AM
 
Location: france
709 posts, read 398,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
Shock effect. The difference between a tank sniping at you from ranges unseen by human eyes and seeing tons of metal about to run you over. In the first case many will stand and fight when in the second will break and run. In the last cases of planned bayonet charges the order was given for the same reason that they were in the age of muzzle loading muskets when sometimes the commanders started the battle with weapons unloaded to keep the shock going by running through the enemy instead of stopping to fire and reload.

Now most military weapons issued since around 1960 with detached pistol grips are not design with bayonet fighting as an important feature. You could say the capability was maintained for traditional reasons.

I never been in army, but I doubt training soldiers will break and run if they suffer from a bayonet charges. I think 99% of them will have the reflex to shoot at you.
A bayonnet charges looks like a suicide and one of the worst decision you can take in a modern battlefield.

I'am not a soldier so I might be wrong. But I don't see a "shock effect" works on regular army. And even on irregular force, I won't try it.
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Old 09-23-2017, 12:16 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
5,437 posts, read 3,629,266 times
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Well. As late as Vietnam melee combat was frequent among American forces and the North Vietnamese. To avoid the overwhelming air and artillery support the Vietnamese had to move as close as possible to our ground troops who would not call in strikes on their own positions. After action reports on these encounters show combat from just a few feet away with rifles at point blank range.
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