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Virginia approves secession convention on Jan 14, 1861, a month before Lincoln's inauguration which convenes on Feb 13,1861. It took three tries to win a successful vote for secession at their April convention and loses half of the state to the Union. This leads to rethink the whole Virginia reluctant secessionist narrative into serious question.
There used to be a fellow from West Virginia who'd pop up from time to time here and on the West Virginia board. Long story short West Virginia was largely the creation of a bunch of local politicians in the area grasping for power. The average West Virginian was more sympathetic to the CSA than the USA which is why more joined Confederate forces than Union ones. He may be along eventually if he finds out you're discussing the state's split.
As to the greater question the men of that earlier generation were contemporaries and the generation after the one Andrew Jackson came of age in. They had been through the nullification crises, and in general either supported Jackson's position that the federal government could guarantee democracy in ways the state's couldn't (Sam Houston refused to approve Texas' secession for these reasons) or were Whigs who'd become Republicans.
There used to be a fellow from West Virginia who'd pop up from time to time here and on the West Virginia board. Long story short West Virginia was largely the creation of a bunch of local politicians in the area grasping for power. The average West Virginian was more sympathetic to the CSA than the USA which is why more joined Confederate forces than Union ones. He may be along eventually if he finds out you're discussing the state's split.
As to the greater question the men of that earlier generation were contemporaries and the generation after the one Andrew Jackson came of age in. They had been through the nullification crises, and in general either supported Jackson's position that the federal government could guarantee democracy in ways the state's couldn't (Sam Houston refused to approve Texas' secession for these reasons) or were Whigs who'd become Republicans.
Virginia approves secession convention on Jan 14, 1861, a month before Lincoln's inauguration which convenes on Feb 13,1861. It took three tries to win a successful vote for secession at their April convention and loses half of the state to the Union. This leads to rethink the whole Virginia reluctant secessionist narrative into serious question.
Wino,
hi again. Yeah, you're confirming what I stated.. Virginia initially voted against secession (partially cited in your post). That vote against secession was overwhelming (which you omitted). Then when Lincoln was going to conscript Virginians to kill other Americans, attitudes in Virginia changed. I didn't see where anyone characterized VA as ultimately 'reluctant secessionist(s)'. I said the opposite (in my earlier post); that VA became 'intensely mobilized' for secession after Lincoln's proposed conscription.
Lincoln's post-election decision-making was directly responsible for Virginia's departure. It had nothing to do with ultimate reluctance, it was about Lincoln changing the landscape. But I get the feeling that objective, historical reality doesn't mesh w/the purpose of your thread.. (ie- margnalizing the 'Insurrection'). /peace/
My great-great grandfather from Tampa with roots Georgia in went to the Naval Academy and became a Union General and lost his leg in combat. His brother went to West Point and became a Confederate General and was killed in combat. Both were cavalry officers.
Wino,
hi again. Yeah, you're confirming what I stated.. Virginia initially voted against secession (partially cited in your post). That vote against secession was overwhelming (which you omitted). Then when Lincoln was going to conscript Virginians to kill other Americans, attitudes in Virginia changed. I didn't see where anyone characterized VA as ultimately 'reluctant secessionist(s)'. I said the opposite (in my earlier post); that VA became 'intensely mobilized' for secession after Lincoln's proposed conscription.
Lincoln's post-election decision-making was directly responsible for Virginia's departure. It had nothing to do with ultimate reluctance, it was about Lincoln changing the landscape. But I get the feeling that objective, historical reality doesn't mesh w/the purpose of your thread.. (ie- margnalizing the 'Insurrection'). /peace/
Some might say it was South Carolina that changed the landscape; and Lincoln didn't call for conscription in response to the attack on Fort Sumter - he called for states to provide volunteer militias.
Wino,
hi again. Yeah, you're confirming what I stated..
Why would I have a problem with that, history is history.
Speaking of which...
Quote:
Then when Lincoln was going to conscript Virginians to kill other Americans, attitudes in Virginia changed.
There was no conscription until 1863. On April 14, 1861 Lincoln called for 75,000 volunteers.
Quote:
the purpose of your thread.. (ie- margnalizing the 'Insurrection'). /peace/
Sorry but no, the purpose of the thread is the un-marginalize southern Americans who did not rally to the cause of the South. I was well aware of Gen George Thomas (one of my favorites) but I had always assumed that he was a rarity. In was only after looking into another topic that I fell about the number of regular officers and West Point graduates who didn't join the south... which quite frankly is very different than the common narrative.
Actually the estimates are 32,000 Union, 18,000 for the confederacy.
No, those are out of date. The current estimates are about even, 20-22,000 men to each side. Most of West Virginia's delegates signed the ordinance of secession in Richmond, they returned to the convention in June 1861. Delegates for counties in blue signed the ordinance, counties in purple had 1 of 2 sign, counties in white did not sign.
You can also see the popular vote on secession in Virginia and Tennessee on this map of the counties in the Appalachian Reg. Commission.
The Union government in Wheeling put more citizens in prison than any other state, at least 2,000 citizen prisoners ended up in Camp Chase OH. That's about 1 of every 39 voters. In Doddridge County, which was a Unionist county, the arrest rate was 1 of every 25 voters.
Actually the estimates are 32,000 Union, 18,000 for the confederacy.
The numbers could well be inconclusive as the USA and the CSA quietly allowed alot of flexibility in how West Virginains served.
An early union report projected that 12,000 men from West Virginia could be placed in the union army. They got the men, but a Union general comlained that only two small regiments were sufficiently motivated to be deployable. The rest had simply switched from being home guard confederates to home guard unionists and had even kept the same former CSA, now USA officers.
That is not to say that no West Virginians felt passionate about the USA or the CSA. StoneWall Jackson was a West Virginian and so was the Union regiment that finally siezed Fort Gregg at Petersburg, Virginia.
At the same time, however, threre were others who preferred to nuetrality and if unable to be neuteral, then were non deployable USA or CSA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763
Some might say it was South Carolina that changed the landscape; and Lincoln didn't call for conscription in response to the attack on Fort Sumter - he called for states to provide volunteer militias.
That is true, but at the end of the day, Lincoln was not only expecting southeners not to leave the union, he was also directly calling on them to fight other southreners who simply wanted to leave. Lincolns call for southeren volunteers (who had a good chance of turning into "volunteers") did change the mood in wavering states such as TN and VI towards secession.
Last edited by Cryptic; 07-07-2015 at 12:32 PM..
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