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Listener and Toyman make good points. The Treaty of Versailles was harsh on Germany. Hitler referred to it many times, I think. I didn't know Wilson treated Germany badly after the war, though. I thought it was pretty much a European thing how Germany was treated with the Treaty of Versailles.
Hitler attacking the Soviet Union was a big mistake. I remember learning one of Hitler's primary reasons was for oil and slave laborers. I guess this ties in to Toyman's assertion that "production capacity" was vital.
If President Wilson had had his way, it is very likely World War II could have been avoided.
Wilson was author of the Fourteen Points which he proposed a very liberal and generous settlement of World War I. There was no mention of Germany paying reparations. There was no "war guilt" clause announcing that Germany was responsible for the war. Instead, Wilson focused on practical matters like independence for the former provinces of the Austria-Hungarian Empire and self determination for the people who lived in those regions. Wilson was the one who insisted on the creation of the "League of Nations" which created an international forum for all nations to participate and air their differences peacefully with other countries.
Germany agreed to an Armistice in November 1918 largely because they thought the terms of the peace would be those described by Wilson in his Fourteen Points. The Germans found out after they laid down their arms that the terms would be set by the peace conference in Paris in 1919 and they were certainly to be much harsher.
The problem wasn't Wilson. French Premier Clemenceau and British Prime Minister David Lloyd George were determined to exact revenge against Germany and wouldn't agree to any settlement that didn't involve enormous reparations from Germany. Wilson was simply overwhelmed and outvoted by other nations when it came to these issues.
See Paris 1919 by Margaret MacMillan
Wilson by Scott Berg
As far as the OP post in this thread goes, I would speculate there were a few general lessons that could be learned from World War II. Here they are:
1. International organizations like NATO and the UN are necessary to keep the peace.
2. When the American people get behind a war, our nation possesses immense power.
3. It is best to show generosity to those whom we defeat.
4. The enemy of our enemy is our friend. (I think specifically of the USSR).
5. Peace under a dictator is not a better option than war.
Last edited by markg91359; 09-29-2015 at 11:47 PM..
The real lesson from WW II is how to win. Not what caused it, not how to fight better, just how to win.
And America led the way.
In the context of the OP's central question - "What is the lesson of Germany's defeat?" - the United States was just one of several nations who all shared the burden, and the only thing on which we "led the way" was industrial production. Germany was already defeated by the time the first American paratroopers dropped into Normandy on the night of June 5th. The Soviets had already dealt the German Army the fatal blow - granted, using a lot of equipment that had "Made In The USA" stamped on it, but still it was the Russians who were using all that equipment to break the back of the German war machine.
But to answer the question in the OP - there is no one lesson to be learned. Ask a hundred different people that question, and you'd get a hundred different answers, and they'd all be correct. If I had to pick the most important lessons for the Allies, I'd probably go with "when you have a problem, solve it while it's still a small problem, because if you wait until it's a big problem it's going to cost a lot more."
And the most important lesson for the losing side? "Don't invade Russia - but if you feel you absolutely must invade Russia, don't wait until the days are already getting shorter before you start rolling your armor."
German Jews were trouble and the primary cause. Trotsky and Lenin were both Jews. Hitler hated Jews because they were the ones espousing communism and were (in his demented mind) responsible for him not getting into art school in Vienna. Germans are highly nationalistic; Germany is for Germans and Germans only; no matter what. Jews, despite being quite "assimilated" for 100's of years, were by the turn of the century holding influential positions in Germany, both in business, and politics. Communism was coming to the fore, and around 1920, began to spread forcefully beyond Russia. That was a major event that started the ball rolling. There were several other things (like the post WW I sanctions, etc) that spurred Hitler into power - which, of course made the second WW inevitable.
Lesson #, struggle of good vs bad is BS, looking at history through moralizing propaganda glasses is BS, given perceived shortages of raw materials, food, space global war and genocides will happen again, veneer of the well fed civilization is really thin.
"Good" allies vs evil nazis is such a BS. Joseph Stalin' USSR was just evil and murderous as nazis, actually more evil, more deranged, more bloody. Gloryfying allies glorified genocidal Soviet regime, a former ally of the German nazis that helped Hitler to kick start WWII. The was no International Court to prosecute the crimes of the soviet regime, thus the millions of victims of the Soviet regime were "justifiable" since USSR allied with the West. Millions of the victims of the Soviet regime are less important than millions of the dead Jews in good vs evil scheme. Good vs evil stops right here. 70 years later Russian regime still uses WWII themes to justify its current crimes, actually the Russian regime created a cult of WWII victory and it keeps on herding the citizenry behind Russian strongman using that cult.
"Good" allies were not that great either. Total war, assisting Soviet slaughter of the Eastern Europeans who viewed Stalin regime as a greater evil, deliberate starving of hundreds thousands of the German POWs. All of that is null and void because Hitler viewd himself as a Hand of God destined to vipe out straying Jews and to deliver greater Germany to new chosen people. Hmm, I wonder if any of you have read the Old Testament? The most ancient document sanctifying the "proper" genocide to deliver the holy land into the hands of God's chosen people.
World War One was fought to decide whether the frontiers in Europe should be redrawn. World War Two was fought to decide how they should be redrawn.
Ah, yes, I remember I wanted to post in this thread.
Ok, so primary goal of WWI was to dismantle then largest European empires - German, Russian, Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman. This was partially accomplished as Russia didn't quite fall completely.
This is why it was said that WWII is inevitable and preparation for it has to start immediately. I can re check, I think it was so presented to Bismark.
Primary goal of WWII was to dismantle British empire and destroy Russia.
Thus, some historians speak of not two WW-s, but of a single one, lasting 30 years, from 1914 all the way through into 1945, with a recess in the middle for political and economical preparations necessary.
One of the WWII goals was accomplished in 1950s, when India obtained independence. Financially, goal was accomplished in 1944, with Bretton Wood conference, when dollar was assigned as the only international currency and pound of sterling became secondary currency. That was the end of the might of British empire. 2nd goal failed again.
As the result, Russia/USSR was then drawn into the so called cold war, which it lost when the USSR was dismantled, thanks to you know who. Who was MI5 agent.
I would think be prepared for war and don't leave troops in the line of fire with no chance of winning. We were very weak prior to WW 2 and got lucky. Also, we had troops in the Philippines and they had little if any chance of winning. They should have been pulled out of the Philippines and moved to Australia.
Wilson was the one who insisted on the creation of the "League of Nations" which created an international forum for all nations to participate and air their differences peacefully with other countries.
The U.S. didn't partake in the League, IIRC. We wanted to get out of European affairs.
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