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Old 10-14-2015, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
20,274 posts, read 23,813,157 times
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I'm currently reading The Great Riots of NYC/1712-1873 by Joel Tyler Headley, and my mouth is agape as I read of the massive destruction, by the Irish, opposed to the Draft and Abolition, during that regrettable period.

I've read of the riots in Watts in the mid-60's, where for 4 days, the L.A. Police and Fireman, merely watched the burning and looting, as it was too dangerous to enter the area, until the National Guard arrived to quell the rioting.

But, comparing Watts and the Draft Riots in NYC, comparing the Blacks with the "animalistic" Irish, I would say these marauding Irish made the Blacks in Watts appear civilized, in comparison. I'm surprised, after that, they'd even allow one more Irish immigrant into the country.

Anyone know of any riots in big U.S. cities, throughout American History, that compares to this?

Myself, I just can't imagine a more destructive riot than this one!
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Old 10-14-2015, 11:53 AM
 
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Have to compare time and place. If you replaced the Irish with an equal amount of Watts rioters, or vice versa, things would probably be close.

Irish were maybe deeper in the construction trades which could help destroy.
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Old 10-14-2015, 12:00 PM
 
Location: TOVCCA
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The Haymarket Affair Riot in Chicago in 1886 was significant for the long-term effect on Labor. Rioters demanded the 8-hour day. It's still celebrated as May Day, the holiday to honor workers everywhere.

"No single event has influenced the history of labor in Illinois, the United States, and even the world, more than the Chicago Haymarket Affair. It began with a rally on May 4, 1886, but the consequences are still being felt today. Although the rally is included in American history textbooks, very few present the event accurately or point out its significance," according to labor studies professor William J. Adelman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair
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Old 10-14-2015, 12:01 PM
 
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also Irish/whites had targets and hit them, watts, not really.

Irish fighting to protect what they had. Watts...ummm no.
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Old 10-14-2015, 12:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightlysparrow View Post
The Haymarket Affair Riot in Chicago in 1886 was significant for the long-term effect on Labor. Rioters demanded the 8-hour day.

"No single event has influenced the history of labor in Illinois, the United States, and even the world, more than the Chicago Haymarket Affair. It began with a rally on May 4, 1886, but the consequences are still being felt today. Although the rally is included in American history textbooks, very few present the event accurately or point out its significance," according to labor studies professor William J. Adelman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair
Even if it was in there in depth it wouldn't matter. Someone who goes to school and then gets a decent job @ 22 will typically not teach labor wars with any passion. Can't teach what they don't understand or care about. Not all, but many. ok, done
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Old 10-14-2015, 12:58 PM
 
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What about the Hibernian-Orange riots. I think there were around 70 killed.
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Old 10-14-2015, 01:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999 View Post
Have to compare time and place. If you replaced the Irish with an equal amount of Watts rioters, or vice versa, things would probably be close.
Since there is no way to estimate the total number of individuals who were actually involved in the riots, let's look at the death toll.

The New York City Draft riot of July 13 - 16, 1863

120 dead

2,000 injured

Watts Riot August 11-17, 1965

34 dead

1,032 injured
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Old 10-14-2015, 01:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by madison999 View Post
Irish fighting to protect what they had.
What they had? What did the Irish rioters have in the stores, banks and Federal treasury vaults that they looted?

You know there is a certain discernible pattern of ahistorical comments and threads emerging.
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Old 10-14-2015, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
20,274 posts, read 23,813,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
Since there is no way to estimate the total number of individuals who were actually involved in the riots, let's look at the death toll.

The New York City Draft riot of July 13 - 16, 1863

120 dead

2,000 injured

Watts Riot August 11-17, 1965

34 dead

1,032 injured
That's hard for me to believe, the number of dead and injured during the NYC Draft Riots, I could believe it if 1 or 2 more zero's were added to the count, particularly the injured count.

The Irish were determined to rid the city of Black people, and any number were lynched, hung from trees, or died from them burning their houses, churches and tenement buildings.

When the military would storm a building that was being looted by the Irish, starting with the 1st floor, going up to the 5th floor, a number of them on the upper floors of the building would jump to their deaths, rather than being clubbed to death.

And then there was the open firing at the mobs, the clubbings, and the soldiers also being injured and killed by stones and bricks, and whatever other weapons they had.

It's a miracle they were able to smuggle those Black children out of that 4-story Colored Orphan Asylum on 5th Avenue before it was consumed in flames. Now how savage was that!!! To burn down that Asylum, with all those helpless children inside!! I can't imagine even the Blacks, in Watts, doing something like that!

Underlying all this madness, was the Irish fearing that if the Blacks were liberated, too many of them would head North and take their jobs away from them, just like the Irish did when they arrived here, taking the jobs away from the Black people.

But after having read, recently, a book covering Post Civil War, the northern industrialists were averse to hiring not only Southern Blacks, but Southern Whites as well.

Last edited by tijlover; 10-14-2015 at 10:30 PM..
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Old 10-14-2015, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Southeast, where else?
3,914 posts, read 4,544,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
That's hard for me to believe, the number of dead and injured during the NYC Draft Riots, I could believe it if 1 or 2 more zero's were added to the count, particularly the injured count.

The Irish were determined to rid the city of Black people, and any number were lynched, hung from trees, or died from them burning their houses, churches and tenement buildings.

When the military would storm a building that was being looted by the Irish, starting with the 1st floor, going up to the 5th floor, a number of them on the upper floors of the building would jump to their deaths, rather than being clubbed to death.

And then there was the open firing at the mobs, the clubbings, and the soldiers also being injured and killed by stones and bricks, and whatever other weapons they had.

It's a miracle they were able to smuggle those Black children out of that 4-story Colored Orphan Asylum on 5th Avenue before it was consumed in flames. Now how savage was that!!! To burn down that Asylum, with all those helpless children inside!! I can't imagine even the Blacks, in Watts, doing something like that!

Underlying all this madness, was the Irish fearing that if the Blacks were liberated, too many of them would head North and take their jobs away from them, just like the Irish did when they arrived here, taking the jobs away from the Black people.

But after having read, recently, a book covering Post Civil War, the northern industrialists were averse to hiring not only Southern Blacks, but Southern Whites as well.
Sounds like someone has been watching the "gangs of New York" movie one too many times. If you want to compare, consider the Irish were worked to the bone in those times, lived in housing blacks of 65 wouldn't have to be subjected to by law, they were dumping sewage in the streets.

The blacks of 65 Watts era haven't a clue about the poverty of the Irish of that time.

In short, look at the context of the times. The Irish lived in abysmal squalor in tenements built on marshes, yes marshes, with open sewage. They saw no point in fighting the civil war where they were going to die for those that weren't fighting it (gee, where have I heard that before?)???? They were afraid of losing what few crap jobs there were. Also, many were fresh off the boat, NO social welfare structure or support and Tamany Hall was born.....contrast that to poor blacks in Watts with access to some benefits not going off to a war to save whites on that scale. Remember, Vietnam would have been a skirmish in comparison to the deaths suffered I the civil war.

The death tolls were evident. To be fair, blacks weren't allowed o fight until later in the war. I dare say if you took a black, white, yellow, brown, female, male, LGBT, whatever and put them in the exact conditions of that time and you too would riot and kill.

Watts? It was a rounding error by comparison. How about the riots of south central? Weren't 42 killed???
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