Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
3]It's not at all unfair. The OP specifically asked about the infrequency of civil wars in the United States.[/quote]
In comparison to the "tons of civil wars or on again off again fighting with each other like just about every other country has had."
Quote:
The United States has been around since the late 18th century,
Which in the history of nation states is very short.
Quote:
Comparing that to monarchies or what feudal countries did several centuries ago would be nonsensical.
On edit:
I find it interest that the reasons given so far, democracy, the bill of rights, the division of powers did absolutely nothing to prevent the country being set aflame in the worst conflagration in the nation's history... so far.
Perhaps it was the Civil War itself that was horrific that a national lesson was learned. The only problem is that history can be fleeting and in time perhaps those lesson will be forgotten.
This is the history forum so when we make statements that seeks to compare the history of the United States against the rest of the world it is a perfectly valid to compare our history to other nations. The fact that they were feudal, constitutional monarchies or anything else for that matter is totally irrelevant to the question.
Quote:
Yeah, gee, post-1689... Oh, right! That's the time-frame in which the United States - about which the OP asked - has existed.
Well England became a unified country in the 10th century so comparatively 1689 is a short period in the nations history. Now I could have used France which as a republic shares a similar time frame as the United States and the my point would have been just as valid.
Quote:
Why you want to uphold earlier periods of pre-industrial pre-Bill of Rights British history, which simply are not analogs in any way to the United States, as comparative models for the U.S. escapes me.
The parameters of the discussion were not set by political or economic development.
Quote:
Well, I'm not playing the "U.S. is better!" game, and why you're playing the "Canada/Australia/New Zealand are better!" game also escapes me.
I can only guess that it escapes you because history is not a game. Canada, Australia nor New Zealand have never experienced a civil war, coup d'tats or any political upheaval that approximates the American Civil War which the OP pretty much dismisses as a small blip in American history, which it was not. The American Civil War's direct ramification lasted for more than a hundred years and still informs present day American politics.
Last edited by TheWiseWino; 11-27-2015 at 09:06 PM..
Separation of church and state, and a universal secular public educational system. We are now threatened by the religious right wing, and massive, uncontrolled illegal immigration and a growing legal immigrant population that does not share our secular, democratic values.
Anglophone countries generally don't have military dictatorships.
The only non-monarchical military dictator in British history was Oliver Cromwell (who is also the only military dictator to rule over the US - specifically New England, Maryland, and Virginia)
By that I mean, with the obvious exception of the American Civil War America has never had tons of civil wars or on again off again fighting with each other like just about every other country has had. You look at places like Syria and Pakistan where people being blown up/shot up, new civil wars happening even today with tanks routinely seen driving through streets to kill others etc. etc. Why has America been so fortunate that (again with the exception of the ACW) it has never really had such internal strife where a new civil war or mass chaos is a common occurrence? I mean think about it, Americans look back at the ACW and just look at it as some terrible thing but it happened over 100 years ago and despite what people may say is unthinkable of ever happening again, whereas in so many other countries they learn a new civil war has started or tanks come rolling in and you could wake someone and tell them and they'll just be like "What's new?' and act like it's just another Tuesday.
(1) The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which limits federal military use in the enforcement of domestic policy. The act does not apply to national guard units. In other countries with the problems you referred to, the military is used against the civilian population.
(2) The second amendment. Americans are armed to the teeth. I regard the right to keep and bear as an actually responsibility to keep and bear. It my view it is the responsibility of every able bodied person to keep and maintain a weapon in his home. I know there will be many who do not wish to do so, and that's fine. It's like voting; those who are interested should do so. Those who are not interested should not be made to feel guilty.
I also worry about the vocal right and their candidates who quote bible verses. They're scary. Think of them picking the Supreme Court makes it even worse. I don't want a president trying to bring on the "Rapture ".
By that I mean, with the obvious exception of the American Civil War America has never had tons of civil wars or on again off again fighting with each other like just about every other country has had. You look at places like Syria and Pakistan where people being blown up/shot up, new civil wars happening even today with tanks routinely seen driving through streets to kill others etc. etc. Why has America been so fortunate that (again with the exception of the ACW) it has never really had such internal strife where a new civil war or mass chaos is a common occurrence? I mean think about it, Americans look back at the ACW and just look at it as some terrible thing but it happened over 100 years ago and despite what people may say is unthinkable of ever happening again, whereas in so many other countries they learn a new civil war has started or tanks come rolling in and you could wake someone and tell them and they'll just be like "What's new?' and act like it's just another Tuesday.
Many countries in the Middle East, some in Africa too, were not called the same names and did not have the same boundaries prior to WWI and WWII. Colonialism and trying to 'break countries up' so as to 'better manage them' (i.e. take advantage of their natural resources) are causing many of the problems we are seeing today. Also, consider there were very strict leaders in many of these countries who kept order (mostly out of fear), until we started killing them or trying to unseat them (Saddam, Muammar Gaddafi, Assad, etc.). We are told many things about the aforementioned in main stream news, but what we aren't often told is how we used to be very friendly and helped these people gain power for our own national interests.
Anyway, we don't have quite the same needs as some of these other folks either. We have a pacified culture in the United States. It may not seem like it all the time, but we do. As long as most people's basic needs are being met, they won't rise up. OR if they think they have no say and cannot change anything, they won't rise up. The moment Americans' feel like their needs are not being met, they will rise up in civil disobedience. As that grows, the government and corporate will start making adjustments so as not to have a civil or militia war ... its always been like that (Great Depression / New Deal, Civil Rights, Women's Rights, etc.).
Also, don't count your pennies before they hatch. Great empires fall. They always have in ancient and modern history. It would probably take one colossal natural or man-made disaster to throw us off kilter. Then you'd see something pretty awful, I think.
Last edited by chrissy_rox2; 11-28-2015 at 06:58 AM..
Reason: double sentence
By that I mean, with the obvious exception of the American Civil War America has never had tons of civil wars or on again off again fighting with each other like just about every other country has had. You look at places like Syria and Pakistan where people being blown up/shot up, new civil wars happening even today with tanks routinely seen driving through streets to kill others etc. etc. Why has America been so fortunate that (again with the exception of the ACW) it has never really had such internal strife where a new civil war or mass chaos is a common occurrence? I mean think about it, Americans look back at the ACW and just look at it as some terrible thing but it happened over 100 years ago and despite what people may say is unthinkable of ever happening again, whereas in so many other countries they learn a new civil war has started or tanks come rolling in and you could wake someone and tell them and they'll just be like "What's new?' and act like it's just another Tuesday.
We are blessed because we used to be One Nation under God. As a Nation, I think we are "pushing the envelope". I presently have a one dollar bill, on the back it says "IN GOD WE TRUST". If those words ever get removed from our currency, it's over.
There were two remarkable events where Washington set by example the necessity of officers of the U.S. Army to respect and submit to the civilian leadership of the country.
First in 1793 when officers of the Continental contemplated conspiring in a general mutiny if the Continental Congress pay the Army its back wages and pensions. The officers meeting in secret near Newburgh, N.Y. to discuss their plan, Washington unceremoniously appeared before them and while sympathizing with their grievances reminded them of their duty to the civil government:
"If peace takes place, never sheathe your swords, says he, until you have obtained full and ample justice; this dreadful alternative, of either deserting our country in the extremest hour of her distress or turning our arms against it (which is the apparent object, unless Congress can be compelled into instant compliance), has something so shocking in it that humanity revolts at the idea. My God! What can this writer have in view, by recommending such measures? Can he be a friend to the army? Can he be a friend to this country? Rather, is he not an insidious foe? Some emissary, perhaps, from New York, plotting the ruin of both, by sowing the seeds of discord and separation between the civil and military powers of the continent?...
I have not a doubt. But, like all other large bodies, where there is a variety of different interests to reconcile, their deliberations are slow. Why, then, should we distrust them? And, in consequence of that distrust, adopt measures which may cast a shade over that glory which has been so justly acquired; and tarnish the reputation of an army which is celebrated through all Europe, for its fortitude and patriotism?"
Washington went on to pledge that he would do all required to insure that the Congress would pay both the back pay owed and the pensions promised and with one speech Washington ended the Newburgh Mutiny and set forth a standard for the military that has been proudly honored ever since.
Washington's second act was during his resignation as Commander in Chief of the Army's given before the Congress on December 23, 1783.
Mr. President: The great events on which my resignation depended having at length taken place; I have now the honor of offering my sincere Congratulations to Congress and of presenting myself before them to surrender into their hands the trust committed to me, and to claim the indulgence of retiring from the Service of my Country.
Happy in the confirmation of our Independence and Sovereignty, and pleased with the oppertunity afforded the United States of becoming a respectable Nation, I resign with satisfaction the Appointment I accepted with diffidence. A diffidence in my abilities to accomplish so arduous a task, which however was superseded by a confidence in the rectitude of our Cause, the support of the supreme Power of the Union, and the patronage of Heaven.
The Successful termination of the War has verified the most sanguine expectations, and my gratitude for the interposition of Providence, and the assistance I have received from my Countrymen, increases with every review of the momentous Contest.
While I repeat my obligations to the Army in general, I should do injustice to my own feelings not to acknowledge in this place the peculiar Services and distinguished merits of the Gentlemen who have been attached to my person during the War. It was impossible the choice of confidential Officers to compose my family should have been more fortunate. Permit me Sir, to recommend in particular those, who have continued in Service to the present moment, as worthy of the favorable notice and patronage of Congress.
I consider it an indispensable duty to close this last solemn act of my Official life, by commending the Interests of our dearest Country to the protection of Almighty God, and those who have the superintendence of them, to his holy keeping.
Having now finished the work assigned to me, I retire form the great theatre of Action; and bidding an Affectionate farewell to this August body under whose orders I have so long acted, I here offer my Commission, and take my leave of all the employments of public life.
To those two, I'd add a third -- his refusal to become "President for Life" -- his resignation from the office of President. If he'd hung on to power as President, it could have set a precedent for those elected to cling to power at any cost.
So do you think there will ever come a time where most people in Asia/Africa/Middle East get to live in say an equivalent of middle class America/Europe and have all the rights, freedoms and the like? Or do you think those parts of the world are just doomed to have constant strife and civil wars until the end of the world?
Also, isn't it quite sad that some people from the 18th century are more progressive and intelligent than practically everyone that lives in Asia/Africa/Middle East today?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Oh, right! That's the time-frame in which the United States - about which the OP asked - has existed.
