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Well i was studing the history of the Modern English language and i realised that our English today is close to the Norman language or Middle English more so than the Anglo Saxon or Old English.
When the Normans invaded England (1066) and conquered it they assumed power and also intermingled with the Anglo Saxons so i got to thinking why are ''Whites'' called Anglo (Saxon) when maybe we/they should be called Normans.
Any thoughts out there as i'm just learning and pondering this subject.
Few word comparrisons.
Modern English ...............1066 Norman........Anglo Saxon
Bait...............................Bete........... ........Eas
Can...............................Canne........... ......Magan
Cat...............................Cat............. ........Catt
Garden .........................Gardin..................N eornenawang
Pouch............................Poque............ .....Faetels
Cabbage........................Caboche............ ..Cawl
Castle...........................Castel........... .......Mynster
Mug..............................Mogue............ .....Wort
Interesting, Who are the normans? where did they come from?
I too enjoy studing English, I find morden english is very limited perhaps shallow,( I detest slang) even more so today compared to manuscripts written 18th century and even early 19th century ( maybe confusing my centurys here) Or perhaps it is language itself that reflects our lifestyles, When I read King james bible or Anna karina, shakespear, Wow what depth,
very intelligent. I absolutly love it.
I would love to hear about the differnces of norman/Anglos
here is a tidbit for you:
Latin in English - More Latin Words in English
Interested in increasing your vocabulary? Here are some more English words from Latin directly or from Latin via French or Spanish. These words are thought to have come from newspaper articles from around 1923. One of the words on the list, mattoid, does not appear to be used any longer, so it is not included.
acumen - ability to make good judgments
agenda - list of things to be done
altruism - selfless concern for others
ambiguous - having a double meaning
aplomb (Fr.) - self-confidence
atrocity - cruel act
avarice - greed
bibulous - excessively fond of drinking alcohol
celibate - abstaining from sex or marriage
chivalrous (Fr.) - gallant
condign - worthy, appropriate
conglomerate - parts put together to form a unit while remaining separate identities
crepuscular - pertaining to twilight
cull - select from a variety of sources
debilitate - weaken
dirigible - capable of being guided
facsimile - exact copy
ferrous - made of iron
flux - in the process of flowing
futile - in vain
garrulity - loquaciousness
impecunious - poor
incalculable - too great to be counted
incommunicado (Sp.) - not in communication with others
indefatigability - tireless
insipid - lacking flavor
introspection - looking within at one's mental or emotional state
languid - slow, relaxed
lucubration - meditation
malfeasance (Fr.) - wrongdoing
modicum - small amount
moribund - near death
mundane - wordly as opposed to spiritual
naive - exhibiting lack of experience
obeisance - respect
obvious - clear (from the Latin for "in the way")
parvenu - celebrity from obscure origins
perpetuate - preserve
perturb - make anxious
plausible - probable
precarious - uncertain
puerile - childishly silly
pulchritude - beauty
pusillanimity - showing a lack of courage
rapport - close relationship
rapprochement (Fr.) - establishment of a harmonious relationship
recalcitrant - obstinate
renegade - a rebellious person
reprisal - retaliation
sacrosanct - very important or holy and not to be messed with
simulacrum - image
stipend - fixed allowance
stultify - make appear foolish, cause to loose enthusiasm
Interesting, Who are the normans? where did they come from?
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Hey Michelle.... They were from Normandy on the northern coast of France. They were the Norse (vikings) and the Franks (old french) mixed to form the Normans or the Norman language.
Interesting about Latin in English as the Normans had Vulgar Latin in the Frankish sect of the Language so maybe that's where alot of it got mixed in. Or it could also be from when the Romans who inhabited England when the Anglo Saxons invaded in the 400's.A.D so they may have also intermingled Latin with Old English.
Well i was studing the history of the Modern English language and i realised that our English today is close to the Norman language or Middle English more so than the Anglo Saxon or Old English.
When the Normans invaded England (1066) and conquered it they assumed power and also intermingled with the Anglo Saxons so i got to thinking why are ''Whites'' called Anglo (Saxon) when maybe we/they should be called Normans.
Any thoughts out there as i'm just learning and pondering this subject.
Few word comparrisons.
Modern English ...............1066 Norman........Anglo Saxon
Bait...............................Bete........... ........Eas
Can...............................Canne........... ......Magan
Cat...............................Cat............. ........Catt
Garden .........................Gardin..................N eornenawang
Pouch............................Poque............ .....Faetels
Cabbage........................Caboche............ ..Cawl
Castle...........................Castel........... .......Mynster
Mug..............................Mogue............ .....Wort
Gotta tell ya, that's a really great observation/question and to be quite honest about it, I haven't clue as to why English (both as a people and in terms of language) is still referred to as Anglo-Saxon. Maybe it's because in popular culture we tend to indentify with the Angles/Saxons than with the Normans because of novels such as Robin Hood - where the Angles/Saxons were shown as being the oppressed good guys while King John (and the Normans in general) were painted as the bad guys (just a guess).
Once again, really great (and interesting question). I'd give you points but I already did that recently so I can't do it again right now.
I never really understood as why english is divied by middle english? etc, I just accepted the term. I would like an explanation if you could?( Im only self taught)
I understand latin roots were exposed when the nobles/wealthy would send there offspring to spain/france/greece/ to learn Latin and greek,(Democracy) so they could express themselves better for the common english was very very limited. some historians say it was very base as only about 500 words. If that is true I wonder what the oirginal english words were without having borrowed from other languages.
do you think it was the romans who influneced them to a higher education? From there invasion. of course then only nobles/wealthy could afford such privilages, is cokney english? or what of its root? compared to oxford english?
There are many fine linguists or social scientists who study root language. One of these wrote a fascinating book entitled "The Alphabet and the Goddess."
While it does not answer 6 Foot 3's question, it does provide some very valuable theories, several of which may help in answering this conundrum.
I haven't clue as to why English (both as a people and in terms of language) is still referred to as Anglo-Saxon. Maybe it's because in popular culture we tend to indentify with the Angles/Saxons than with the Normans because of novels such as Robin Hood - where the Angles/Saxons were shown as being the oppressed good guys while King John (and the Normans in general) were painted as the bad guys (just a guess).
Good analogy on the Novel Ken.....I did some more research on this and from what i gather the Anglo Saxons hated their new overlords the Normans so that ties in with the Robin Hood Novel you sugested.
The new Norman Kings made Norman the official language of all government settings but the Anglo Saxons retained their ''Old English'' which eventually merged and became ''Middle English''.
I also just realised that they were in power only about 100 years (1066-1154) so that wasn't very long to have an Norman idenity for the peoples. Now wondering how Modern English emerged after this Norman period.
Anyway interesting stuff....thanks Ken, Michelle and Ontheroad.....
Some of you might find these books interesting.
"The Adventure of English" by Melvyn Bragg and "the History of English" by Robert McCrum , William Cran and Robert MacNeil. Both fascinating.
I see your in England so my question is do most in England think of themselves as Anglo or Anglo Saxons? I believe the rest of the U.K. outside of England (Irish, Welch, Scots etc.) is of the ancient Celts and not the Anglo/Saxons correct.
I see your in England so my question is do most in England think of themselves as Anglo or Anglo Saxons? I believe the rest of the U.K. outside of England (Irish, Welch, Scots etc.) is of the ancient Celts and not the Anglo/Saxons correct.
I don't think most people really think about it much except those from Celtic "Nations" ( Scotland, Ireland, Wales) and regions ( Cornwall) though I guess if pushed most would describe as Anglo-Saxon as the mix has been here for so long it seems to be widely accepted as making the bigger part of Britain.
Certain parts of England such as Yorkshire and Northumberland were more influenced by Norse and Dane settlements as were the Shetlands and Orkneys in Scotland.
There was a fascinating programme on TV recently about a genetic survey done nationwide. They actually found out that things were not necessarily as clear cut as Anglo-Saxons predominance and that many regions did have still a lot of the original Celtic population.
The Normans did not seem to have that much of a genetic influence, I suspect perhaps as they were all pretty much the Upper Classes and intermarried mainly with other Normans . There was never a Norman invasion, the conquering army was relatively small.
Genetic map of the UK sheds light on history of Ancient Britons and modern day disease (broken link) Blood of the Vikings (7/3/2001)
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