Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
General Patton wanted to go into Russia and finish the Soviets off, but the government wouldn't listen to him.
Thank God they didn't. We had to end the war in the Pacific, and were expecting the Soviets to help in that. Gen. Iamgod MacArthur was demanding that Gen. Marshall get the Soviets to invade Hokkaido to divert troops from his target area, Kyushu.
The US public would never have stood for it either. The USSR was our ally according to endless sources of propaganda. To attack them would have been another Pearl Harbor, with us as the bad guys.
"Peace is going to be hell on me," said Patton near the end of the war. He really just wanted to keep on fighting, politics was a minor part of his desire to attack the Red Army.
And, finally, the US had decided that we could "do the job" with 90 divisions, spread out between Europe and the Pacific and slowly being concentrated for Operation Olympic against Japan. The Red Army had 5.3 million men in arms, almost all in Europe. Attacking them would have been suicide and would have given Stalin the excuse to have Soviet Navy bases in Antwerp, Brest and L'Orient.
Thank God they didn't. We had to end the war in the Pacific, and were expecting the Soviets to help in that. Gen. Iamgod MacArthur was demanding that Gen. Marshall get the Soviets to invade Hokkaido to divert troops from his target area, Kyushu.
The US public would never have stood for it either. The USSR was our ally according to endless sources of propaganda. To attack them would have been another Pearl Harbor, with us as the bad guys.
"Peace is going to be hell on me," said Patton near the end of the war. He really just wanted to keep on fighting, politics was a minor part of his desire to attack the Red Army.
And, finally, the US had decided that we could "do the job" with 90 divisions, spread out between Europe and the Pacific and slowly being concentrated for Operation Olympic against Japan. The Red Army had 5.3 million men in arms, almost all in Europe. Attacking them would have been suicide and would have given Stalin the excuse to have Soviet Navy bases in Antwerp, Brest and L'Orient.
This has been debated to death in another thread last year, the attack on the USSR with us lacking serious nuclear capability (nevermind the two bombs) and the ability to deliver to the heart of Russia would only result in the Communist domination of Continental Europe and Turkey. Then, most likely, a ceasefire for a decade or so followed by an eventual nuclear war.
This has been debated to death in another thread last year, the attack on the USSR with us lacking serious nuclear capability (nevermind the two bombs) and the ability to deliver to the heart of Russia would only result in the Communist domination of Continental Europe and Turkey. Then, most likely, a ceasefire for a decade or so followed by an eventual nuclear war.
The holocaust would have continued unabated until Hitler was defeated or he managed to exterminate everyone he considered unacceptable in the Third Reich and its dependencies.
In 1941-1945 the USSR, the USA, England, Australia, Canada were allies and reached the mutual victory.
Well, from June of 1942, when Nazi Germany invaded the USSR. @ the point, the Comintern issued declarations that the Nazis were the bad actors in the World, always had been, & that the Great Rodina would be in the forefront of defending the World.
What's impressive is that the USSR actually managed to hold off the Nazis. This was amazing, because the French were supposed to be the heavy military hitters of Europe @ that point, & the USSR was regarded as nearly the sick man of Europe. The French were outflanked, the BEF had to retreat as best they could, abandoning all their heavy materiel. The Low Countries capitulated. The Soviets lost forward line after forward line, their troops were surrounded, battered & forced to surrender. But each time, Stalin formed new armies further east. The Soviets moved their heavy industry east, brought troops, tanks, arty west from the border with Manchuria. & Stalin & the Stavka learned to cope with the Nazi Blitzkrieg, & eventually counterattacked.
General Patton wanted to go into Russia and finish the Soviets off, but the government wouldn't listen to him.
Gen. Patton wasn't that far gone. The British High Command looked @ the numbers for a possible endgame to drive the USSR back to its 1917 borders. The USSR fielded 100s of divisions, & by the end of WWII, they were battle-hardened veteran units, & perfectly willing to sacrifice dozens of divisions, if the main effort succeeded. The British High Command reported that there was no possibility that Allied forces could prevail by conventional weaponry against the Soviets.
& that was that. The US could have put considerably more forces into play - but we had gambled & won that 90 divisions would be sufficient to drive in the Atlantic Wall & - in cooperation with UK, Commonwealth & other allies - overrun Germany & Italy. It would have taken years to train up another cohort - maybe tripling our 90 division forces, plus materiel, transport, logistics - across shattered landscape & I believe one of the worst winters on record in northern Europe.
No, it wasn't on. The UK went broke in 1944, I believe. No matter how much PM Churchill wanted to free E. Europe up to the Soviet border, the manpower wasn't there, the exchequer was long past exhausted, they had to feed their people, retool for peacetime, & UK had been fighting since Sept. 1, 1939. It was a very long slog for them, & the UK & Commonwealth did their best. But it would have been asking the impossible, to press on to war against their late allies, to the borders of the USSR.
We could have exercised the nuclear option against the USSR, I suppose. I don't think the US was ready to do that either. In self-defense, perhaps. But I don't think our civilians would have stood for dropping nuclear weapons across Europe, up to the Soviet border. (& realistically, we would have had to have bombed Soviet factories, marshalling yards, transport hubs, & on & on.)
Gen. Patton wasn't that far gone. The British High Command looked @ the numbers for a possible endgame to drive the USSR back to its 1917 borders. The USSR fielded 100s of divisions, & by the end of WWII, they were battle-hardened veteran units, & perfectly willing to sacrifice dozens of divisions, if the main effort succeeded. The British High Command reported that there was no possibility that Allied forces could prevail by conventional weaponry against the Soviets.
& that was that. The US could have put considerably more forces into play - but we had gambled & won that 90 divisions would be sufficient to drive in the Atlantic Wall & - in cooperation with UK, Commonwealth & other allies - overrun Germany & Italy. It would have taken years to train up another cohort - maybe tripling our 90 division forces, plus materiel, transport, logistics - across shattered landscape & I believe one of the worst winters on record in northern Europe.
No, it wasn't on. The UK went broke in 1944, I believe. No matter how much PM Churchill wanted to free E. Europe up to the Soviet border, the manpower wasn't there, the exchequer was long past exhausted, they had to feed their people, retool for peacetime, & UK had been fighting since Sept. 1, 1939. It was a very long slog for them, & the UK & Commonwealth did their best. But it would have been asking the impossible, to press on to war against their late allies, to the borders of the USSR.
We could have exercised the nuclear option against the USSR, I suppose. I don't think the US was ready to do that either. In self-defense, perhaps. But I don't think our civilians would have stood for dropping nuclear weapons across Europe, up to the Soviet border. (& realistically, we would have had to have bombed Soviet factories, marshalling yards, transport hubs, & on & on.)
The public opinion would absolutely not support attacking the yesterday's ally that born the bunt of the war effort against the Nazis and showed an amazing bravery and resilience at Stalingrad. Especially since this would mean literally millions of additional dead American, British and Commonwealth soldiers, additional years of war, sons and husbands and fathers not coming home after the great war they went to fight was already won. No way.
Plus, the allies had no means of attacking the relocated industrial factories in Siberia.
Plus, a huge fifth column of communist sympathizers who'd be outraged and willing to help the embattled Workers Paradise. It's not that easy for a well meaning person to support the Nazis with their hatred filled ideology, but the Communist ideology was packaged in nice pink wrapper and full of warm, fuzzy concepts like world peace, brotherly love, no more exploitation, paradise for everyone. Many, many more people subscribed to it back then.
Plus, as already mentioned, the British Empire - still considered a major player about on par with USA - was broke.
All together, would seem too high of a price to pay to help out the Poles and Czechs (who in 1946 were not yet fully under Commie yoke) and Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians and East Germans (all former Nazi states that nobody in the general public was much in love with).
So what I am getting from this topic is that some devils are better than others?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Details, details, details
