Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-07-2016, 03:18 PM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,306,076 times
Reputation: 45727

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey View Post
Since Truman was not in the military, he was not bound by the military code. As I recall it, Truman in Plain Speaking clearly indicates that McArthur's continued insubordination to him as Commander in Chief was what forced his hand. It could be argued that the "political" decision was not firing him earlier.
Truman wanted to fire MacArthur about seven months before he actually did. According to Miller, in Plain Speaking, Truman was particularly incensed at a speech MacArthur gave to the VFW in which he outlined an entire foreign policy without first discussing it with the President or the State Department. Truman said he was talked out of firing him at this time by George Marshall and some other generals

Truman also brought up some personal matters that figured into his decision. He felt MacArthur's overall behavior and demeanor was inappropriate. He cited an example of him wearing garb and clothing that was not official military issue. He discussed having to wait in his airplane forever for MacArthur to approach it and officially greet him when they met at Wake Island for a meeting. His dislike for MacArthur was quite deep. He said that he had tried to account for the General's behavior and reached a conclusion that "sometimes he just wasn't right in the head."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-..._b_621832.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-08-2016, 09:20 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,691,956 times
Reputation: 14622
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey View Post
Since Truman was not in the military, he was not bound by the military code. As I recall it, Truman in Plain Speaking clearly indicates that McArthur's continued insubordination to him as Commander in Chief was what forced his hand. It could be argued that the "political" decision was not firing him earlier.
During the meetings about what to do with him, the JCS agreed with Truman that what MacArthur did was out of line. However, "insubordination" was considered a military protocol and if that had been the reason given MacArthur could have demanded an inquiry/court martial and such a proceeding would have, in the opinion of the JCS, found MacArthur innocent. In their opinion he had never actually violated a military order...stretched them, certainly...but never violated. The "gag order" Truman gave him was not a legal military order. MacArthur was more or less flaunting the authority of the President with the his actions.

So, it was ultimately a political decision, one (as markg pointed out) Truman wanted to make long before he did it and one that proved very costly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Truman wanted to fire MacArthur about seven months before he actually did. According to Miller, in Plain Speaking, Truman was particularly incensed at a speech MacArthur gave to the VFW in which he outlined an entire foreign policy without first discussing it with the President or the State Department. Truman said he was talked out of firing him at this time by George Marshall and some other generals

Truman also brought up some personal matters that figured into his decision. He felt MacArthur's overall behavior and demeanor was inappropriate. He cited an example of him wearing garb and clothing that was not official military issue. He discussed having to wait in his airplane forever for MacArthur to approach it and officially greet him when they met at Wake Island for a meeting. His dislike for MacArthur was quite deep. He said that he had tried to account for the General's behavior and reached a conclusion that "sometimes he just wasn't right in the head."
This last part is interesting because others around MacArthur had said the same things, especially during the early days of the Korean War when things were not going well. His "on again, off again" odd behavior was a factor in the lack of confidence the allies showed in him as supreme commander. During the initial Chinese offensive he would go from plotting grand strategy to throwing things to weeping uncontrollably and back again in the span of a couple of hours. He had by all accounts become "unhinged".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2016, 11:51 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 2,304,388 times
Reputation: 2172
Explains why he didn't see his air commander for eight hours after the news about Pearl Harbor reached him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2016, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Independent Republic of Ballard
8,071 posts, read 8,367,466 times
Reputation: 6233
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
During the meetings about what to do with him, the JCS agreed with Truman that what MacArthur did was out of line. However, "insubordination" was considered a military protocol and if that had been the reason given MacArthur could have demanded an inquiry/court martial and such a proceeding would have, in the opinion of the JCS, found MacArthur innocent. In their opinion he had never actually violated a military order...stretched them, certainly...but never violated. The "gag order" Truman gave him was not a legal military order. MacArthur was more or less flaunting the authority of the President with the his actions.

So, it was ultimately a political decision, one (as markg pointed out) Truman wanted to make long before he did it and one that proved very costly.
The term "insubordination" is not strictly a "military" term. Truman was neither bound by nor subject to the military code.

Truman's relieving him of his command was "political" only in the sense that it was an action taken by the President (a politically elected civil officer) as commander-in-chief. MacArthur was relieved, not demoted.

To my mind, decisions characterized as "political" more normally are intended to reap political (partisan) advantages and/or avoid paying political costs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2016, 06:49 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,691,956 times
Reputation: 14622
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey View Post
The term "insubordination" is not strictly a "military" term. Truman was neither bound by nor subject to the military code.

Truman's relieving him of his command was "political" only in the sense that it was an action taken by the President (a politically elected civil officer) as commander-in-chief. MacArthur was relieved, not demoted.

To my mind, decisions characterized as "political" more normally are intended to reap political (partisan) advantages and/or avoid paying political costs.
My understanding is that had they directly cited "insubordination" as the reason, rather than it being Truman's unilateral choice to relieve him, that it could have resulted in a military trial. It was the opinion of Bradley and the JCS that a charge of insubordination would never hold in a court martial. Truman's speech to the nation never mentions anything about insubordination or what happened between them, he simply refers to a re-focusing of priorities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:15 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top