If We Had Supported The Russian Takeover of Afghanistan

[ukrkoz]

Go to Afghan and ask those who remember those times. Don't be surprised to hear answer "they brought jobs and schools". They tried to copy USSR, which was stability, security, safety, employment and education.
Go see what you have there now.

[Ummagumma]

First, there's absolutely zero chance of any American administration in the 1980 supporting a Soviet invasion of a third world nation to support a Marxist dictator.

Second, the Soviets did not have a plan for a post-invasion Afghanistan. None whatsoever. The invasion idea was opposed by nearly everyone in the Soviet military command. Their plan was to keep remotely supporting and propping up the Pro-Soviet Marxist Afghan forces - who were actually doing better before the invasion than following it. Then the Soviet leadership grew increasingly dissatisfied with Amin and decided that replacing him with Najibullah was a better option. Even this could still be done without a massive invasion, although some of the geriatric Soviet leaders surrounding the even more geriatric Brezhnev insisted on a direct involvement. Then the Islamists attacked a rural school partially staffed by Soviet personnel and beheaded some of the Soviet female teachers. This made Brezhnev furious and he sided with Suslov and some others against the military command's opinion and authorized the invasion and Amin's assassination. At least that's what I read, although I honestly can't recall the source. The Soviet invasion had electrified the opposition to the Marxist government and kicked the resistance into a wholly new phase. So the Soviet military got stuck in a foreign country without a clear exit plan. They could remain there for another decade without either losing or winning, if the money didn't run out.

The way the Soviets crushed the similar islamist uprisings in the Soviet Central Asia in the early 1930s was by the total annihilation of any resistance and taking the entire area firmly under Soviet control in all areas of life - something that can't be done in a foreign country.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by Ummagumma

First, there's absolutely zero chance of any American administration in the 1980 supporting a Soviet invasion of a third world nation to support a Marxist dictator.

Second, the Soviets did not have a plan for a post-invasion Afghanistan. None whatsoever.

May I ask what do you mean by that?

The way the Soviets crushed the similar islamist uprisings in the Soviet Central Asia in the early 1930s was by the total annihilation of any resistance and taking the entire area firmly under Soviet control in all areas of life - something that can't be done in a foreign country.

Central Asia ( all the "stans" in there) USED to be a "foreign country" too you know, as much as Caucasus. This was not ethnically Russian population living there ( originally) yet eventually Russians took area under control and subdued Islam there. Although it needs to be noted of course that Central Asia didn't have EXACTLY the same ethnic composition as Afghanistan; the "Pushtuns" were notably absent in Central Asia.
Same can be said about Caucasus; Russians successfully assimilated a lot of ethnic groups there, except for Chechens.
And Chechens were again the very people who in their drive to establish a radical Islamic state in Caucasus received the support of the West (US including) for their "fight for freedom" and against the "Russian oppression."

[Nema98]

No, the invasion was wrong and we supporting the Soviets would have still rendered Afghanistan a failed state. It was best for no intervention to occur in the first place.
Not saying things may not have gone south in that country, there was a coup against the King in 1973. But I doubt it would have been worse.

[LINative]

Originally Posted by tijlover

Any guess what Afghanistan would be like today? Did we arm the wrong crowd?

Just finished reading Beneath the Burqa's, the story of 2 women who managed to escape Afghanistan, separately, their brief life under Communism vs. the Taliban and its predecessor.

The oldest one welcomed the Communists, if nothing else, for the equality of women, the freedom to wear Lev's, not even wear a scarf, educational opportunities. And don't we all know how the Communists view religion?

Then the nightmare came! The Taliban! The Religious Police catches a woman wearing fingernail polish, chop the fingers off! A woman walking a few steps ahead of her husband, both were beaten, him for allowing the wife to walk ahead of him, her for walking ahead of her husband. Medical care cut off to women. A Dr. found treating a woman could be executed.

Now, would this have happened under full control of the Communists? Or would the extremist sects have found a way, without military help from the Americans, in driving the Russians out anyway?

First, I don't think there was anyway that the USA, especially under President Reagan in the 1980s, would support the communists in Afghanistan.

However, it is possible that the United States would not have supported the Afghan rebels if they knew what was going to come. But you have to remember what the world was like in the 1980s. When I was a kid in the 80s, we did not have Sunni religious fanatics in the Middle East, at least nothing like now. We did however, still worry about the Soviet Union and the communists.

[Dd714]

Originally Posted by LINative

First, I don't think there was anyway that the USA, especially under President Reagan in the 1980s, would support the communists in Afghanistan.

However, it is possible that the United States would not have supported the Afghan rebels if they knew what was going to come. But you have to remember what the world was like in the 1980s. When I was a kid in the 80s, we did not have Sunni religious fanatics in the Middle East, at least nothing like now. We did however, still worry about the Soviet Union and the communists.

Once again, the afghan rebels were not the problem. The problem was foreign Islamic fighters that poured in near the end of the Soviet conlfict, and after the Soviet's left.