Civilizations That Could Have Made It. (war, Romans, Egypt, general)

[cpg35223]

Here's a fun speculative thread. Pick a civilization on the dustheap of history (The Aztecs, the Incas, the Khmers, whoever), and assume that they avoided conquest and survived to the present day. What do you think the world would be like? Write a fun scenario.

Here's an example:

The Romans. Instead of splitting into the Western and Eastern Roman Empires, the Romans instead maintained a unified political entity. Marcus Aurelius decides to give the Roman Senate more power, thereby restoring the Republic. Roman innovation begins developing more and more technology, thereby leading to more productivity in commerce, along with a more commanding military advantage, especially over the German tribes. Over time, the Roman Empire expands to the borders of present day Russia.

With the Roman presence in Egypt, trade begins to strengthen between Rome and the Orient. Roman colonies ring the Indian ocean and the coast of Africa. An industrial revolution takes place in the 600s. Eventually the Roman Empire breaks up into a Commonwealth including North Africa/Arabia, Southern Europe, Spain and Gaul, Germany, Byzantium, Mesopotamia, and Dacia.

[Trudy Rose]

The Ottoman Empire, after their capture of Constantinople ,so traumatized Western Europe,that Vienna,too, eventually fell ,and the further conquests of Persia, Hungary, the Balkans, the Mediterranean, led to the taking of most of Western Europe. They instituted many reforms and placed education above religion.They produced many strong leaders who were able to establish highly effective governments. By using the sea routes they gained from Portugal after they took Spain, they went not only to the East, but also to the Americas, where they established bases in Brazil. From there they moved North and eventually took over North America.

[skytrekker]

The Roman empire & Republic was in the end a failed effort- as the OP suggests here. Its long reign not withstanding-

Perhaps it is an example of what might have been for all civilizations.

[GCSTroop]

Wow the OP's version sounds a lot like another present day country that seems to have extended it's borders a little too far....

OK, my turn but I'll put it in a different context...

In 1864, the Confederacy leads a massive charge againt the Union Armies led by General Lee. They manage to overthrow enormous Union strongholds and battle their way to victory.

Lincoln is never assassinated but tried as a war criminal and hanged for 'war crimes'. The Emancipation Proclamation is overturned, the South eventually retracts itself from the Union and proclaims itself as its' own sovereign territory. As a result, slavery continues to rampantly dominate Southern plantations and eventually workplaces to include factories.

As part of a bitter trade embargo imposed by the Union over the slavery in the newly ceded South, another war breaks out. The South, confident in its' prior victories over the North re-attacks in hopes of not only conquering the North but making it a part of it's own "Confederacy".

In the end, the United States of America becomes a bitter civil-war torn country divided over the very same things that started the first war. Through a multitude of thousands upon millions of deaths, starvation, and poverty, both sides crumble and fall. The war has brought nothing but despair and poverty for a once promising nation.

In the end, the U.S, or what was once left of it, never enters World War I or World War II. Both Stalin and Hitler's armies become alliances instead of enemies. Brutal totalitarian communist and socialist regimes dominate Europe and execute many millions more throughout Asia and North Africa. Japan completes its' conquest of the Pacific and conquers much of the Western U.S. and the Russo/German alliance moves onwards into the eastern U.S. to capture what is left of the war torn country.

NASA is never founded. Medicinal technologies are still in their early 20th century roots. Freedom of religion, speech, and press have been altered from their Constitutional beginnings to suit the needs of the Civil War and newly found totalitarian regimes. The world is a wasteland full of despotic corruption and somber realities of war.

Oh, but on a good note, terrorism never becomes a problem.....

[John Walmsley]

This interesting thread reminded me of Percy Bysshe Shelly's well-known poem, Ozymandias:

I met a traveler from an antique land
Who said: 'Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear --

"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings,
Look at my works, ye Mighty and despair!"

Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.'


My historical scenario would be as follows:

Hannibal has just completed a brilliant string of victories over the Romans throughout Italy, climaxed at the terrible battle of Cannae, where over 50,000 Roman soldiers lay dead, including 80 Roman senators and two pro counsuls. Hannibal is at the apex of his power. Since marshaling his forces in Spain for the long trek over the Alps, he has welded several disparate peoples in one cohesive body, all united in their fear and loathing of the rising power of Rome. Hannibal, who personally leads his men in battle and converses in six or seven languages, has the absolute loyalty of this polyglot army.

Despite Hannibal's impressive victories, the timid Carthaginian senate is reluctant to commit needed resources to his campaign until some way is found to stop the newly launched Roman navy from continuing to take a toll of Carthaginian ships plying their trade throughout the Mediterranean. Hannibal, ever open to new ideas, hears of Archimedes, the aging genius of Syracuse. Archimedes, no friend of Rome, receives him well and agrees to work on some new ideas for revolutionizing naval warfare. Archimedes' inventions of new ship design, improvements in the use of Greek fire, etc are so successful that Rome is forced to sue for peace and Carthage emerges as the preeminent military and economic power in the Mediterranean.

The ruling families of Carthage are suspicious of Hannibal's growing fame and power in Italy and they recall him, where he is assassinated by jealous rivals.
As Carthage grows in wealth and power, its citizens descend into a purposeless life of indulgence and luxury, no longer doing anything for themselves, but depending on servants brought in from other countries and
the services of a mercenary army. The system breaks down and
Carthage is overrun by emboldened former North African allies who pillage and destroy the very buildings that once housed lofty councils. Murder and mayhem are the order of the day. Warnings of nature's advance on Carthage that went unheeded are now terrors to the remaining populace, as the Sahara reclaims much of the city. The city become uninhabitable. Finally, the only noise is the wind and shifting sand through the broken-down columns.

[Tricky D]

I know Genesis is not true history or historally correct, but what if Adam & Eve were Neanderthals and the offspring from Cain are the Cro-Magnon or Homo sapiens?
In that light the change in history would be that Cain never killed Abel and that God never marked Cain and his offspring with the mark of Cain so the Cro-Magnon or other Homo sapiens never came to be.

Genesis' fall of man could be considered the advent of the Homo sapiens.