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Thanks for this, it gave me a good laugh. I imagined Terrence and Phillip from South Park driving ridiculous little tanks across the border, while Stan, Cartman, Kyle, and Kenny shoot RPGs at them!
It actually says something quite good about US-Canadian relations, that an invasion plan going either way seems like some sort of joke.
This author discusses the case made more than 20 years ago that there was a serious Kennedy Administration plan to wipe out the Russians in a first strike, and speculates on why this has never become widely known.
The longest unprotected border in the world has some interesting problems for the war planner. In the west, mountains, in the east, waterways. In the middle, meh. (But fine tank country.)
Yeah, but the logistics... not a lot of gas stations up that way - although there is a really cool station in Cloquet, Minnesota that was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. Only 2 pumps, though, and the lane between the pumps and the building is too narrow for tanks. So only one could fill at a time, and that might be enough to lose the war for those damned frostbacks.
But on a serious note, can you imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to invade the United States through the Upper Midwestern prairies? All we'd have to do is set up a defensive line at the Mississippi in the east, stretching west along the Nebraska border to the Front Range, and then just sit there watching cat videos on Youtube for a couple of weeks while they burn up all their gas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer
Nobody finds it ominous that ~90% of Canadian live within 100 miles of the US border?
Me neither.
Nothing the least bit ominous about that. We just have better TV programs, that's all. Nobody ever said Canadians were stupid.
It seems that once the decision is made to "go nuclear"... There is no room for half measures.
If things had "kicked off", the only viable alternative was a massive strike, one which would have mitigated the Soviets ability to retaliate.
One other thought... In this day and age, It does not seem that most people have any idea of how close we actually came to nuclear war.
I will tell a story that will be intentionally vague. Vague to not betray a confidence that was placed in me...
A close friend was stationed aboard an aircraft carrier during the crisis .
The day of ultimatum arrived... levels were maxed out.
The strike aircraft were brought up to the deck (nothing unusual).
The atomic weapons were bought to the aircraft. (not particularly unusual, done many times in practice).
The weapons were loaded. (again that that unusual as this was in training).
Then came the part that frightened my friend....
The "arming kits" were brought to the aircraft..... NEVER in training had the bombs and the arming kits been together at the same time.
They had gotten within minutes of "kick the tires... and light the fires".
As we all know, the "stand down" order finally arrived, and the tensions began to slack off.
Thank God....
BUT, it came closer than many people actually knew.
You're right, very very few people know how close we came - we were literally moments away from WWIII, and nobody in the United States knew it until years later. How many people here - even now - know the story of Vasily Arkhipov, The Man Who Saved The World?
Arkhipov was commander of a group of 4 Soviet Foxtrot-class attack submarines that were assigned to escort the cargo ships through the blockade. As commander, he did not have a submarine of his own, but instead was aboard one of the 4 submarines, the B-59. While at sea, he also technically served as executive officer of the B-59, although his role as second-in-command was more figurehead than functional, because it was assumed he would be too busy as group commander to be deeply involved in the running of the boat.
On October 27th,the climactic day of the crisis - the day that Robert McNamara looked up at the sunset outside the White House and wondered if it would be the last one he would ever see - the B-59 had been submerged and out of contact with Moscow for 4 days, and the crew was tired, stressed, and scared. American destroyers detected and approached the submarine, and attempted to force it to the surface by dropping practice depth charges nearby. The captain and crew did not understand that they were practice depth charges, and thought that the war might have actually started and that they were under attack.
In the Soviet navy, the 2 primary officers aboard a submarine - the captain and the political officer - had to agree in order to launch a nuclear weapon. In this case, both the captain and the political officer did agree to fire a nuclear torpedo at the American fleet, but because of the special circumstances of Arkhipov being aboard, in the case of that particular submarine, it was also necessary for him to agree as well. And Arkhipov did not agree with the order. There was a heated argument between Arkhipov and the other 2 officers, but as group commander Arkhipov pointed out that launching a nuclear weapon without his approval would be an illegal order.
In the end, Arkhipov won the argument, and the B-59 surfaced rather than launching a nuclear torpedo. However, Soviet doctrine at that time did not draw a clear distinction between conventional and nuclear war, and did not recognize the concept of a "limited nuclear exchange" as the Western countries did. Had B-59 launched a nuke against the American navy, American ships would almost certainly have used nuclear weapons to defend themselves, and had they launched a nuclear counterattack against the Soviet fleet, the exchange would have become strategic within minutes. If not for the courageous and coolheaded actions of Vasily Arkhipov, it really would have been the last sunset McNamara ever saw, and tens (if not hundreds) of millions of other people, as well.
Did Kennedy plan a nuclear first strike on the Soviet Union?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment
This author discusses the case made more than 20 years ago that there was a serious Kennedy Administration plan to wipe out the Russians in a first strike, and speculates on why this has never become widely known.
For many decades the Pentagon has drawn up all kinds of contingency plans covering everything you could imagine and lots of things you probably couldn't imagine.
A major concern was a Soviet offensive in Europe, with NATO conventional forces/weapons likely insufficient to stop it. An at least perceived willingness to be the first to use nuclear weapons, tactical and strategic, to defend Europe was an important deterrence against Soviet aggression.
This is not something that Presidents are in charge of. The JSOC, JCS and others spend their idle time dreaming of any and every contingency imaginable.
Kennedy, in particular, did not possess a predilection for unleashing the dogs of war. This is generally the rule of conduct for those who have actually engaged in the dogs of war.
Leaders who fantasize about war are often found to be leaders who artfully dodged the "responsibilities" and "opportunities" of war. I could name names but most of us know them already.
Kennedy did not want the world to burn. Neither did Khrushchev (or Castro). Theorists may contemplate about that contribution to their demise.
The USSR had a nuclear arsenal of four ICBMs based in Kamchatka. Clearly another subject.
I think the better word would have been "consider" rather than "plan".
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Did Kennedy plan a nuclear first strike on the Soviet Union?
