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Old 08-31-2016, 05:31 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, California
1,953 posts, read 4,944,808 times
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people from VN tell me the ethnic Chinese didnt do anything, and they won the battle of Dien Bien Phu without any help from the Chinese?

I heard the opposite from other people? they said the Chinese advisors actually helped defeat the French at Dien Bien Phu, but let the PAVN take the credit for the battle?

with such a high population of ethnic Hoa / Chinese during the war, I would guess many of the ARVN could have been from an ethnic Hoa / Chinese background?

I also read that the US Special Forces trained ethnic Chinese called the "NUNG" and they were some of the best fighting units of the ARVN

The PAVN also had lots of PLA advisors serving with them, along with Russian advisors, also both China & Russia got into some air combat & dog fights against US air power helping the North Vietnamese army PAVN.
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Old 09-01-2016, 06:05 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
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I think you mean the Hmong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hmong_people

And yeah, they were tough and dangerous.
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Old 09-01-2016, 06:37 AM
 
11,563 posts, read 17,491,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr bolo View Post
people from VN tell me the ethnic Chinese didnt do anything, and they won the battle of Dien Bien Phu without any help from the Chinese?

I heard the opposite from other people? they said the Chinese advisors actually helped defeat the French at Dien Bien Phu, but let the PAVN take the credit for the battle?

with such a high population of ethnic Hoa / Chinese during the war, I would guess many of the ARVN could have been from an ethnic Hoa / Chinese background?

I also read that the US Special Forces trained ethnic Chinese called the "NUNG" and they were some of the best fighting units of the ARVN

The PAVN also had lots of PLA advisors serving with them, along with Russian advisors, also both China & Russia got into some air combat & dog fights against US air power helping the North Vietnamese army PAVN.
Two different topic but yes indeed - Vietnam had a sizable population of ethnic Chinese that were swept up into both sides of the conflict.
Likewise Vietnam had a sizable supply of Soviet and PRC advisors and materials - thousands of troops actually, tanks, AA guns, some aircraft, munitions, training. After 1968 relations with PRC and North Vietnam soured and most of the Chinese left (and in fact later Vietnam had a short war with China) but they still had the Soviets.
Ho Chi Minh never trusted the Chinese anyways. This is his supposed quote in regards to the Chinese and dealing with the French after WWII: "The last time the Chinese came, they stayed a thousand years...if the Chinese stay now, they will never go. As for me, I prefer to sniff French sh*t for five years than to eat Chinese sh*t for the rest of my life. "
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Old 09-01-2016, 07:46 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, California
1,953 posts, read 4,944,808 times
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Default The Chinese Nungs

Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
I think you mean the Hmong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hmong_people

And yeah, they were tough and dangerous.
NO, these were an ethnic Chinese group, not the same as Hmongs

The Nung are a Vietnamese minority group of ethnic Chinese descent, though there has been some debate among anthropologists as to their proper identification and classification. Some Nung groups were heavily influenced by the Vietnamese, though reports indicate their continued use of Chinese calligraphy and the continued influence of certain Chinese social, religious and agricultural practices. Also, the names of some of the subgroups of the Nung in Vietnam continued to reflect their places of origin in China

The Nungs had a reputation as fierce fighters, and their presence was reassuring to those who fought with them. They served widely and in a variety of roles with the U.S. Army Special Forces once the American buildup began. A number of Special Forces detachments worked in widely scattered camps whose personnel often included unreliable strike forces. After the Special Forces camp at Hiep Hoa was overrun by the Viet Cong on the night of 23-24 November 1963, more precautions were taken to build up security in these far-flung ouposts. One of the measures frequently taken was to hire tough Nung camp guards.


http://specialforces78.com/members-p...chinese-nungs/
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Old 09-01-2016, 08:08 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 1,458,035 times
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Got it.
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:14 PM
 
5,392 posts, read 5,638,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Two different topic but yes indeed - Vietnam had a sizable population of ethnic Chinese that were swept up into both sides of the conflict.
Likewise Vietnam had a sizable supply of Soviet and PRC advisors and materials - thousands of troops actually, tanks, AA guns, some aircraft, munitions, training. After 1968 relations with PRC and North Vietnam soured and most of the Chinese left (and in fact later Vietnam had a short war with China) but they still had the Soviets.
Ho Chi Minh never trusted the Chinese anyways. This is his supposed quote in regards to the Chinese and dealing with the French after WWII: "The last time the Chinese came, they stayed a thousand years...if the Chinese stay now, they will never go. As for me, I prefer to sniff French sh*t for five years than to eat Chinese sh*t for the rest of my life. "
Isnt Ho Chi Minh of partial chinese descent himself?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh

He apparently had to study a lot of chinese growing up.
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Old 09-03-2016, 02:45 PM
 
11,563 posts, read 17,491,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Isnt Ho Chi Minh of partial chinese descent himself?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh

He apparently had to study a lot of chinese growing up.
The wiki article didn't say anything about being Chinese at all.
He was well traveled and educated, attending a French University, and knew many languages.
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Old 10-11-2016, 06:12 PM
 
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Ok so I think you are confusing two different concepts here

1. Chinese from China
2. Ethnic Chinese from Vietnam (Hoa)

1. North Vietnam
2. South Vietnam

North Vietnam: ethnic Chinese were mostly farmers because NV was a communist state with no private businesses.

South Vietnam: ethnic Chinese called Hoa were extremely powerful, an economic elite, who operated the majority of businesses, controlled most of the trade, owned most real estate and had connections with the government. Go to Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) today and most of the big buildings you see including the Fine Arts Musuem and the Hotel Metropolis. These were owned and built by the Hoa. The HCMC Museum of Fine Arts was actually a private residence of an extremely wealthy Chinese man called Hui Bon Hua. The mansions in the surrounding area were also owned by his family. Ethnic Chinese were exempt from serving in the military but they could still join if they wanted to. There are many notable Hoa soldiers who fough for South Vietnam.

When South Vietnam fell, the Hoa bore most of the brunt of the new regime. The ban on trade and the conversion of private businesses into government businesses heavily affected them. Not to mention many with past connections to the government were sent to re-education camp. Wealthy businessmen were sent to remote areas to do farming. Many of these people left Vietnam. However today Vietnam still has 1 million Chinese left and they are returning to their former economic glory with the opening of the market

Chinese advisors you're talking about are from China and they helped North Vietnam not South Vietnam.
Chinese in North Vietnam: They were expelled over the border when China-Vietnam tension escalated and they bored the brunt of the Sino-Vietnam war

Please note that the situation of the Hoa in the North and the Hoa in the South are completely different. These two groups belonged in two different socioeconomic class and they had different historical events affecting them. Please don't confuse Hoa from North VN and Hoa from South VN. This is mistake that many people make when trying to analyse ethnic Chinese situation in Vietnam

The Nung: they are not considered the same as the ethnic Chinese (Hoa) because they are a mountain tribe who still live a primitive life, totally opposite to our urbanized and highly successful Hoa people. Also I'm not sure if the Nung are Han Chinese or they are an ethnic minority of China like the Zhuang. If they are then Vietnamese definitely don't consider them the same as Hoa. Because when Vietnamese think of Chinese we think of Han Chinese not other ethnic minorities of China.
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Old 03-31-2017, 02:52 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale
896 posts, read 405,524 times
Reputation: 1602
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr bolo View Post
people from VN tell me the ethnic Chinese didnt do anything, and they won the battle of Dien Bien Phu without any help from the Chinese?

I heard the opposite from other people? they said the Chinese advisors actually helped defeat the French at Dien Bien Phu, but let the PAVN take the credit for the battle?

with such a high population of ethnic Hoa / Chinese during the war, I would guess many of the ARVN could have been from an ethnic Hoa / Chinese background?

I also read that the US Special Forces trained ethnic Chinese called the "NUNG" and they were some of the best fighting units of the ARVN

The PAVN also had lots of PLA advisors serving with them, along with Russian advisors, also both China & Russia got into some air combat & dog fights against US air power helping the North Vietnamese army PAVN.
I studied the Vietnam War out of curiosity starting in middle school back in the 80s. At the time, none of the teachers would talk about Vietnam. It was a taboo topic. But it drove tremendous motivation to learn as much as I could about the war "teachers did not want to talk about".

The Chinese relationship with Vietnam was complicated. There were indeed Chinese advisers at the Battle of Dien Bien Phu. The Chinese had captured American artillery in the Korean War. Some of those big guns were brought to Dien Bien Phu and given to the Viet Minh. So the Chinese did assist in training and usage.
I read the book "Hell in a Very Small Place" about the doomed French garrison. It has details about the Chinese support to Giap towards the end of the French occupation.

But paradoxically, China went to war with Vietnam after it fell to "Communist" control. This proved the Domino Theory was false.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War

The fictional film "Apocalypse Now Redux" shows a scene with French survivors of Dien Bien Phu who point out the Chinese animosity with Vietnam. Albeit a fictional film, the animosity was historically realistic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTAcS8E2FWM
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