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Old 09-13-2016, 09:32 AM
 
9,062 posts, read 3,053,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karstic View Post
Americans in a near future will have to define a territory as their mainland, as Spain, France England and Germany did or were forced to do.... and abandon all their "conquests". Conquests are not economical in the long run. Either that or you become another country. The thirteen colonies, the prairies, a large country.


we abandon "conquests" over a century ago. We didn't keep France, Germany, Japan or South Korea after we defended those countries with blood and treasure.

The U.S. didn't started or invented the game, we just played it well when that was the standard at the time to expand.



Don't blame the U.S. for playing the same game everybody were playing centuries ago because we ended at the top. That's just being sore loser.


Mexico was doing the same thing and would have expanded their territories if their dictators had a stronger army and weren't so incompetent and the U.S. were weak.
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Old 09-13-2016, 09:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karstic View Post
Really, not your business. You probably have not visited Mexico beyond Tijana.

Could you imagine a foreign power saying...ohhh, the us has some shi...y states that are abandoned, let's take them now that they are weak".

I have visited all of Mexico and I mean the REAL MEXICO, not the tourist safe areas like you have and I speak Spanish more than you....we can have this conversation in Spanish if you like and I can give you a real history lesson of Mexico from the Native era, to Spain to the Mexican dictatorships to the present state of the Mexican government in why they are the way they are and why is pretty much a hopeless country of no law and no order or justice.


I didn't get your last comment, try to explain it in proper English or Spanish because it has nothing to do with reality in what happened.
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Old 09-13-2016, 11:30 AM
 
1,476 posts, read 691,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
we abandon "conquests" over a century ago. We didn't keep France, Germany, Japan or South Korea after we defended those countries with blood and treasure.

The U.S. didn't started or invented the game, we just played it well when that was the standard at the time to expand.



Don't blame the U.S. for playing the same game everybody were playing centuries ago because we ended at the top. That's just being sore loser.


Mexico was doing the same thing and would have expanded their territories if their dictators had a stronger army and weren't so incompetent and the U.S. were weak.


I'm talking about colonies, as to the colonies all European powers had and had to leave in the long run.
Colonies work for a certain time, 150-250 years...300 at most..and then you have to pull out. All those lands Americans grabbed for Mexico are colonies. You might settle the colonies with "colonials" for a while, for a few centuries, there are dozens of cases, but at the end the land will return to its original culture and inhabitants.
Mod cut.

Last edited by PJSaturn; 09-15-2016 at 09:38 AM.. Reason: Leave current politics out of it.
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:46 PM
 
9,062 posts, read 3,053,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karstic View Post
I'm talking about colonies, as to the colonies all European powers had and had to leave in the long run.
Colonies work for a certain time, 150-250 years...300 at most..and then you have to pull out. All those lands Americans grabbed for Mexico are colonies. You might settle the colonies with "colonials" for a while, for a few centuries, there are dozens of cases, but at the end the land will return to its original culture and inhabitants.
[snip]

What original culture and original inhabitants will Texas, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Idaho and Oregon in the present will return to? the 17th century 70 Native Tribes?, the 18th century Spaniard culture, the 19th century Mexican culture?



those lands that Americans got from Mexico by war and treaty are not colonies, they are sovereign states under a federal union that is call the U.S.A.....millions of citizens in those states live a better life under a better system than if those lands would have been part of Mexico.

Last edited by PJSaturn; 09-15-2016 at 09:39 AM..
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karstic View Post
1. Mexicans, call them Tejanos or whatever.
2. The land was not heavely populated, so what? Mexico had few inhabitants.
3. Texas was part of Mexico, as California.
Under international law, sovereignty over a particular piece of land is partly a function of military conquest.

In 1846, the USA and Mexico went to war. The USA won that war and through the Treaty of Guadulupe Hidalgo, Mexico ceded the northern portion of its country to the United States. Later, Mexico voluntarily accepted a cash payment in return for the portion of Arizona Territory located south of the Gila River during the Gadsen Purchase.

If Mexico wants these lands back it can attempt to take them by military force. Of course, the results are likely to be the same.

No historical controversy is here at all. The USA is the legal owner of those lands acquired through the Mexican Cession.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post

If Mexico wants these lands back it can attempt to take them by military force. Of course, the results are likely to be the same.
.


the same? more like a 1,000 times the a$$ kicking they got in 1848.....this time we will keep their whole country and clean that mess up.


Lets be nice,.,,,if Mexico wants the lands back they have to compensate every American Citizen and American Businesses to buy their properties and moving expenses and pay the U.S. government for the highways, roads , bridges and all the stuff the U.S. government by U.S. taxes payed for.

California has 38 million residents not including the illegals from Mexico who doesn't want to be part of Mexico.

Texas 27 million residents, Arizona 7 million, New Mexico 2 million, Colorado 5 million, Utah 3 million, Idaho 1.6 million, Nevada 3 million, Oregon 4 million.


total: that's over 90 million residents and countless businesses the Mexican government has to pay to relocate.


Mexican government doesn't have the money for even 5% of that.
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Old 09-14-2016, 05:02 AM
 
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And the US should pay the current price to the owners of all confiscated properties owned by Tejanos, Californios and Criollos updated to current prices. Also in Florida and Luisiana,

No need no invade, as muslims in North Africa say..."the womb of our women will conquer Al Andalus".

Last edited by karstic; 09-14-2016 at 05:12 AM..
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Old 09-14-2016, 05:05 AM
 
1,476 posts, read 691,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
the same? more like a 1,000 times the a$$ kicking they got in 1848.....this time we will keep their whole country and clean that mess up.


Lets be nice,.,,,if Mexico wants the lands back they have to compensate every American Citizen and American Businesses to buy their properties and moving expenses and pay the U.S. government for the highways, roads , bridges and all the stuff the U.S. government by U.S. taxes payed for.

California has 38 million residents not including the illegals from Mexico who doesn't want to be part of Mexico.

Texas 27 million residents, Arizona 7 million, New Mexico 2 million, Colorado 5 million, Utah 3 million, Idaho 1.6 million, Nevada 3 million, Oregon 4 million.


total: that's over 90 million residents and countless businesses the Mexican government has to pay to relocate.


Mexican government doesn't have the money for even 5% of that.

They could implement an American law, the squatting law. Any Mexican that squats a property has the right to live there. That was the law American used to confiscate and steal Californio and Tejano property.

The part of those inhabitants that are not Mexican, mabe 10 million in 20 years, could live in the big prairies. English had a similar plan in 1812 . but they wanted to create a big indian nation, English are the best in partitioning colonies.

Last edited by karstic; 09-14-2016 at 05:18 AM..
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:01 AM
 
9,062 posts, read 3,053,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karstic View Post
And the US should pay the current price to the owners of all confiscated properties owned by Tejanos, Californios and Criollos updated to current prices. Also in Florida and Luisiana,

No need no invade, as muslims in North Africa say..."the womb of our women will conquer Al Andalus".




you are totally clueless, the U.S. didn't confiscate any properties from Tejanos, Californians or Criollos. When the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was signed Mexicans in those annexed areas had the choice of relocating to within Mexico's new boundaries or receiving American citizenship and staying. Over 90% chose to become U.S. citizens. The residents had one year to choose whether they wanted American or Mexican citizenship. Over 90% chose American citizenship. The others returned to Mexico, where they received land, or in some cases in New Mexico were allowed to remain in place as Mexican citizen.

Mexico was run by a brutal corrupt military dictator why would anybody in the annexed territories wanted to be under that regime?
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:09 AM
 
9,062 posts, read 3,053,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karstic View Post
They could implement an American law, the squatting law. Any Mexican that squats a property has the right to live there. That was the law American used to confiscate and steal Californio and Tejano property.

The part of those inhabitants that are not Mexican, mabe 10 million in 20 years, could live in the big prairies. English had a similar plan in 1812 . but they wanted to create a big indian nation, English are the best in partitioning colonies.


and who did Spain and the Mexican government "confiscated" and "stole" those lands from????

I'm sure the Spaniard/Mexican governments implemented the squatting law for the Natives....huh?...lol
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