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Old 09-19-2016, 04:18 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,443,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
Peccavi?
Napier's famous message after having conquered Sind. Peccavi, ancient Greek for I have sinned. I have Sind.

Great Game territorial acquisition and all that.
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Old 09-19-2016, 07:05 AM
 
1,476 posts, read 725,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post

There is no reversing back trend. The areas you mention where sparsely populated by Mexico, even neglected as mobility in the age in question would not allow for larger movement of people due to a variety of reasons, geography and wealth as it did indeed cost to travel. There is no taking back by Mexico of these regions because they were not of interest- hence the need to invite in Americans to Texas. The other regions were remnants of Spanish border and trading positions which were incorporated in Mexico with liberation.

Recommend reading De Voto's volumes on this era.
Colonization with alien people might prove fruitful during certain time, but it will always revert to the autoctonus inhabitants. I don't see inhabitants of Mexican origin that soon will be the majority asking the return to Mexico, they'll probably form a new state as Texas should have been a new country.

Mexicans, and earlier Spanish in Luisiana and Florida, should only have allowed Catholics, Irish, German, etc.

Allowing protestants was like allowing enemies inside, a pity that Mexico was independent by then and had no Inquisition.
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Old 09-19-2016, 08:56 AM
 
779 posts, read 468,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karstic View Post
Colonization with alien people might prove fruitful during certain time, but it will always revert to the autoctonus inhabitants. I don't see inhabitants of Mexican origin that soon will be the majority asking the return to Mexico, they'll probably form a new state as Texas should have been a new country.

Mexicans, and earlier Spanish in Luisiana and Florida, should only have allowed Catholics, Irish, German, etc.

Allowing protestants was like allowing enemies inside, a pity that Mexico was independent by then and had no Inquisition.
And when will Mexico allow the Mayans in Yucatan form their own independent state so they can do what needs to be done to preserve their language and culture?
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Old 12-10-2018, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Brazil
163 posts, read 96,686 times
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Robert D Kaplan on the reversing back of the border. For whatever reason, Kaplan does not seem to be really bothered by it, contrary to Samuel Huntington, f.e:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...vanishing.html
http://www.rferl.org/content/robert-.../24704951.html

Samuel Huntington's famous article, "The Hispanic challenge":

http://foreignpolicy.com/2009/10/28/...nic-challenge/

Last edited by Joao; 12-10-2018 at 07:02 AM..
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:41 AM
 
11,674 posts, read 17,744,939 times
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I was saying to myself this morning - "what we really need is a good thread about the Mexican-American war....". It was a fascinating campaign involving Scott's ultimate flanking move 1,000 miles into enemy territory, junior officers that would later make there mark in the U.S. Civil War, and the self-proclaimed "Napoleon of The West" himself - Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna.

I read a few pages of this 2016 thread and see it's really prelude into a modern political/immigration piece and has nothing to do with the war, not really. See it was resurrected for apparently no reason by OP yesterday, again nothing to do with the war, and end up still wishing "what we really need is a good thread about the Mexican-American war...."
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Brazil
163 posts, read 96,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
it was resurrected for apparently no reason by OP yesterday
I am reading right now this book, by John Oswandel, who took part in the expedition of Winfield Scott. One can literally travel back to the past.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Notes...war_1846-47-48

Then I came upon the articles by both Robert D Kaplan and Samuel Huntington, and due to their relevance, and the different approaches of both scholars, I decided to post them here.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:14 PM
 
11,674 posts, read 17,744,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joao View Post
I am reading right now this book, by John Oswandel, who took part in the expedition of Winfield Scott. One can literally travel back to the past.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Notes...war_1846-47-48

Then I came upon the articles by both Robert D Kaplan and Samuel Huntington, and due to their relevance, and the different approaches of both scholars, I decided to post them here.
There you go! I will have to check out that book. Jeff Shaara also has a historical fiction novel of the Scott Campaign which I enjoyed called "Gone for Soldiers".
Scott's campaign was a master stroke of operational planning - Scott traveled 100's of miles on land into central mexico, fighting a numerically superior force at each stop, with a tenuous supply line and no ability to retreat, to ultimately capture Mexico City. This campaign in some ways was a model for Grant's flanking moves in the Vicksburg Campaign and Sherman's March to the Sea in the Civil War.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
37,816 posts, read 17,752,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
This campaign in some ways was a model for Grant's flanking moves in the Vicksburg Campaign and Sherman's March to the Sea in the Civil War.
Grant took the best from the general's under which he served during the Mexican war. From Zachary Taylor he absorbed his low key, informal style of command, and from Scott he learned how to operate by cutting loose from his line of supply and living off the land.

Scott isn't often held up as one of the great American generals, but he certainly should be. People have the idea that the US forces overwhelmed the tiny Mexican army when in fact, at all times Scott was outnumbered by 3-1 or worse.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:45 PM
 
11,674 posts, read 17,744,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Grant took the best from the general's under which he served during the Mexican war. From Zachary Taylor he absorbed his low key, informal style of command, and from Scott he learned how to operate by cutting loose from his line of supply and living off the land.

Scott isn't often held up as one of the great American generals, but he certainly should be. People have the idea that the US forces overwhelmed the tiny Mexican army when in fact, at all times Scott was outnumbered by 3-1 or worse.
He should be indeed. People also forget his political savvy. There is another reason his march to Mexico City was a success. Mexican's hated Santa Anna and Mexico City rule, he played on that. He was military governor, Mexicans ended up loving him. He could have literally ruled Mexico.

Also of note - Scott, still in charge in 1861 at 74 years old, was the guy that said The Civil War wasn't going to be easy, the south needed to be blockaded, and forces march down the Mississipi in a long campaign. Others laughed at him, said no the war would be an easy quick affair. Scott was forced to retire and suggested the best officer the US Army had at the time to take his place - Robert E. Lee.

And at the end indeed, the Civil War was a long bloody affair with a blockade and eventual campaign down the Mississippi. And we all know what happened to Robert E. Lee.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Brazil
163 posts, read 96,686 times
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Interestingly, Scott followed the approximate route taken by Hernán Cortés in 1519, after also landing in Veracruz. He seems to have studied carefully the history of Mexico similarly to Commodore Matthew Perry and Japan (https://ia800301.us.archive.org/22/i...xped03perr.pdf ).
Attached Thumbnails
The Mexican American war-cortesexpeditionasd.fconquest_mexico_1519_21.png   The Mexican American war-mexicanamericanwarwinfieldscott.d.thumbnail_img_5624.png  

Last edited by Joao; 12-10-2018 at 02:39 PM..
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