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Much of this rush into marriages between wealthy (but nobody) American heiresses and poor but somebody Europeans was due to the desire of the families of the former to stand out.
The close and snobbish world of Vanderbilts, Astors, and others that made of society then (themselves of often rather new money by European standards), was hard to break into for say a Wall Street banker or railroad tycoon. However if the man's daughter married a duke, prince or whatever not only she but the lot were risen up.
Cash for titles created such a huge demand various books and services sprung up in aid of the thing. Besides matchmakers there were various periodicals such as "The Titled American" that could be consulted.
There was a miniseries on television back in the 70's about her called "Jennie." She was played by Lee Remick, and it was a pretty good program IIRC.
I think I remember that programme, wasnt it the one where a doctor performs a hysterectomy on the lady to stop her having babies as her husband Churchill had syphillis, might be wrong but that sticks in my mind... Oh the things that went on above stairs, hahaha makes us paupers tame doesnt it..One of the Mitford sisters married into the same family as Kathleen Kennedy the Cavendish s...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debora..._of_Devonshirehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...bbey-plot.html
Last edited by dizzybint; 11-19-2016 at 04:01 AM..
Much of this rush into marriages between wealthy (but nobody) American heiresses and poor but somebody Europeans was due to the desire of the families of the former to stand out.
The close and snobbish world of Vanderbilts, Astors, and others that made of society then (themselves of often rather new money by European standards), was hard to break into for say a Wall Street banker or railroad tycoon. However if the man's daughter married a duke, prince or whatever not only she but the lot were risen up.
Cash for titles created such a huge demand various books and services sprung up in aid of the thing. Besides matchmakers there were various periodicals such as "The Titled American" that could be consulted.
Though widely accepted at the time and for decades later, modern historians medical and otherwise highly doubt Lord Randolph Churchill had syphilis. Lord Randolph Churchill: Maladies Et Mort
Much of the evidence against this comes from the fact neither Lady Churchill, nor her two children displayed any of the symptoms or signs of syphilis infection. Indeed none of the lady's subsequent two husbands showed any signs of being infected with that disease which certainly was in the cards if the woman herself had been.
Though widely accepted at the time and for decades later, modern historians medical and otherwise highly doubt Lord Randolph Churchill had syphilis. Lord Randolph Churchill: Maladies Et Mort
Much of the evidence against this comes from the fact neither Lady Churchill, nor her two children displayed any of the symptoms or signs of syphilis infection. Indeed none of the lady's subsequent two husbands showed any signs of being infected with that disease which certainly was in the cards if the woman herself had been.
IM wondering that if she did in fact have a hysterectomy, was it to stop her having babies as she seemed to have many lovers including a king and prince at the time........ on the other hand it did say her husband died of syphillis, strange though that such secrets were given out in those times. Ill have to read about the disease as I know hardly anything about it, but couldnt he have contracted it years after he had children and not passed it on to them or his wife,, as both seemed to have been too busy with other partners.
IM wondering that if she did in fact have a hysterectomy, was it to stop her having babies as she seemed to have many lovers including a king and prince at the time........ on the other hand it did say her husband died of syphillis, strange though that such secrets were given out in those times. Ill have to read about the disease as I know hardly anything about it, but couldnt he have contracted it years after he had children and not passed it on to them or his wife,, as both seemed to have been too busy with other partners.
Given lack of modern antibiotics no one willingly went under the knife unless there was no other option. People died from a prick by a rose bush torn for goodness sake. If a woman didn't want to have babies there are far more simpler ways around that slice of life.
Even with laws and customs as they were; that is a wife being the sole and exclusive property of her husband and thus couldn't be "raped" , not every man was a beast. If Lord Randolph Churchill *did* have the pox or whatever he could have done the decent thing and left his wife in peace.
All this not withstanding plenty of Victorian (as those before them) became infected with syphilis, the pox and or herpes by their husbands. Some during their honeymoon, others during course of marriage. If you believe the stories Isabella Beeton was infected by her husband but died of childbed fever before it became fully blown.
As stated previously the bacteria which causes syphilis was not discovered until 1905 and even then there was still much medical science did not know. People assumed when the first presentation of infection went away they were "cured", which of course is not true. That and or the long latent periods without visible signs meant men (and women) could go on infecting others.
When you watch the PBS series "The Buccaneers" you'll see VD was worked into the story line. Victorians often did that sort of thing but you had to know what was being said. When persons spoke of "bad blood" in a person or family it could mean mental illness or perhaps VD. Often the two were linked as later stages of syphilis cause insanity.
Of course no one would have wanted an operation back in the day ,but even in the late 1800s doctors werent slow to remove organs from a woman seen as expendable once shed had children, it was a known procedure for Hysteria, we have to remember some of the loony treatments back then by doctors and a hysterectomies were one of them.,,and women didnt have a say even of their own bodies. It was seen that some organs in the body werent necessary and better taken away, or maybe they just wanted to kid themsleves to gain experience of the human body... who knows... but yes they were carried out on poor unsuspecting women.
Female hysteria was a once-common medical diagnosis, reserved exclusively for women, which is today no longer recognized by medical authorities as a medical disorder. Its diagnosis and treatment were routine for many hundreds of years in Western Europe. Hysteria of both genders was widely discussed in the medical literature of the nineteenth century. Women considered to have it exhibited a wide array of symptoms, including faintness, nervousness, sexual desire, insomnia, fluid retention, heaviness in the abdomen, shortness of breath, irritability, loss of appetite for food or sex, and a "tendency to cause trouble."
In extreme cases, the woman might be forced to enter an insane asylum or to undergo surgical hysterectomy
What a sad life for women when causing trouble or sexual desire caused a major operation to be performed or sent to an asylum. and you talk about a prick on a rose bush, more than on rose bushes back then. just found this and might be very interesting to you Bugsy... while reading about hysterctomies in the 1800s I found, this OK it doesnt prove a thing but gives food for thought does it not.
Thomas Keith a Scottish trained surgeon (around 1855) realized the danger of this practice and merely cauterized the cervical stump, thereby bringing the mortality down to about 8%. Thomas shared a practice in Great Stuart Street, London with his brother George Skene Keith; both were members of Sir James Young Simpson’s team that pioneered the use of chloroform as an anaesthetic. He was also Lady Randolph Churchill’s physician http://www.bronwenevans.com/womens-p...n-early-1800s/ Its sometimes a benefit knowin our history. or at least some of it.
Last edited by dizzybint; 11-20-2016 at 04:35 AM..
His death early on the morning of Wednesday, 9 October 1895, after a lifetime of battling kidney stones, was hastened by constant exposure to early antiseptics. He had been living at Charles Street, Berkeley Square in London and was buried in Kensal Green Cemetery. He had married a Miss Johnston, first cousin to the wife of Sir James Young Simpson, and they had produced six children. He was also doctor to Lady Randolph Churchill
He contributed numerous papers on ovariotomy to the Edinburgh Medical Journal and to the British Medical Journal. .... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Keith_(doctor) Thomas shared a practice in Great Stuart Street with his brother George Skene Keith; both were members of Sir James Young Simpson's team that pioneered the use of chloroform as an anaesthetic. George was also a founding member of the Photographic Society of Scotland. Their surgery flourished and Keith became a prominent gynaecologist and a specialist in ovarian and uterine disorders
If we look up the word Ovariotomy it might tell us why he may have been doctor to Mrs Churchill..
Last edited by dizzybint; 11-20-2016 at 09:17 AM..
As you probably know, Downton Abbey was based on this story line of the rich American marrying into a noble but impoverished family.
You might enjoy this series if you can find the videos online. I've watched both seasons so far and have done some follow up reading about some of the people. Very interesting stories.
It's a very interesting time period, I've read a lot of history and novels about it.
Ok, thanks to you lot was up until the wee hours watching "The Buccaneers" on YouTube. Forgot how wonderful that drama was; back when PBS put on such really good things.
Edith Wharton died before finishing the novel, so everything after Nan meeting Guy Thwarte at the Christmas party was written by others with some of it not happily received.
Sounds interesting,,, on reading some more about Jennie, I found some stuff on her health, and states that while she was ill her husband was abusing her, does that mean hitting her or something else, Im not sure, but it took her months to get back to full fitness.
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