Which of King Henry's VIII wives got the worst treatment?

[TXRunner]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

I will just give you one example though - Catherine of Aragon had a cherished set of christening clothes that all of her dead babies as well as her only surviving child Mary had been christened in. Anne sent a message saying she needed to send it to her so that Elizabeth could be christened in it. Now that is just cruel.

Maybe there's actual an actual historical record as to this christening dress you could point us to. I can only find some anecdotal stuff and it all says that Anne asked Henry to ask Catherine if they could use the dress. Catherine said no, so they used a different dress. None of it says Anne asked Catherine directly and I don't see anything where this communication was written down. I'm not aware of an actual record of any of this taking place.

There's a lot of just plain old stories about what people did or said back that, most of it just completely made up after the fact in order to push a particular narrative. I really don't see a lot of actual historical facts regarding the relationship between Anne Boleyn and Catherine of Aragon. Almost all of it is pure speculation.

[Futurist110]

Either Anne Boleyn or Katherine Parr. Probably Anne Boleyn since Henry VIII blamed her for something--specifically the sex of their daughter Elizabeth--that was actually under Henry's control as opposed to under Anne's control. Of course, this was not actually known at the time, but still, ...

[Futurist110]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

I'd have to say Catherine of Aragon as well. Though she and Henry had about 20 years of marriage that was relatively "happy" before the S hit the fan with Anne Boleyn, the Church, all that jive, she lost several infants and pregnancies through no fault of her own, and he was unfaithful to her for many years prior to hooking up with Anne Boleyn. Divorce and even annulment were incredibly disgraceful back then, but ESPECIALLY to a devout, devoted queen. When she was put aside, her daughter - her only surviving child - was bastardized and outcast. She and her daughter were kept in an isolated, damp castle as prisoners. She was sick for years, and dealing with the shame of her situation and the loss of a husband she was devoted to for decades. She was intentionally needled and ridiculed and embarrassed by Anne Boleyn and Henry. And she and her only daughter were eventually separated and kept completely apart from each other. She died after a long, lingering, wasting illness - with poor medical care and living an abject, shamed life - separated from her beloved and only child - intentionally, by the way, by Henry, who was very punitive toward her, and toward Mary.

Of course you'd vote for Catherine of Aragon; you're her namesake, after all!

[Katjo4]

Catherine Howard did have a “quick execution” but had much worse things happen.
Since she was a child men raped her. As examples, her music teacher, Francis Dereham, then Henry came into the picture and her family forced her to marry him. And after the marriage, Thomas Culpepper, one of the king’s grooms, raped her.
Thomas actually raped a park keeper’s wife whilst several of his men held her down.
And when someone fro the local village recognized him, accused him of rape, but Thomas killed them to keep quiet.
But don’t worry! Henry VIII pardoned him for both rape and murder.

[Katjo4]

Originally Posted by Marleinie

Catherine of Aragon
Anne Boleyn
Jane Seymour
Anne of Cleves
Catherine Howard
Katherine Parr

Which one do you think suffered the most being married to Henry?

One: Catherine of Aragon betrothed to Arther, one of Henry VII‘s infant sons. After Arther died, Catherine was put in prison. Then here came Henry VIII. After proven, that the marriage to Arther was ne’er consummated Catherine married Henry. After Henry was done with her, he planned to Anne. Catherine to not give an annulment though. That’s where things went way worse for Catherine of Aragon. She was taken to poverty and forced not to see her child and died a sad death.



Two: The Boleyns always tried to force their daughters to the king hoping he would take them as a mistress.
Mary Boleyn was for a while, the certain of Henry VIII’s interest but then Anne came and Henry got tired of Mary(like he does with all his mistresses and wives). Anne Boleyn’s family pushed her onto him. And I find this eminently interesting, that Catherine of Aragon tried to help Anne by stopping Henry’s advances toward her- for Anne’s good, not her own. But of course, Henry got what he wanted. And none of the reasons for Anne’s beheading were sooth.




Three: Jane Seymour was not as well educated as Anne Boleyn, or any others of Henry’s wives. Solely knew how to write her own name and that’s all. Once anew her family forced her onto the king. I’m starting to see a pattern here...
The families are the sole people who want their daughters to marry. NOT the queens.
Jane had a medium bad life with Henry.
But still bad.




Four: I mean Anna of Cleaves didn’t have a bad life. She got a castle, money, no marriage, and was known as the king’s “sister” for her life. She predominantly got the last laugh.



Five: Catherine Howard since a child was raped. Her grandmother had a school for children, and the boys often went into her room and raped her. Then later was raped by her music teacher. Francis Dereham raped her when she was fifteen. Then here comes Henry VIII- once anew her family forced her to marry him. Prior to meeting Catherine, Thomas Culpepper raped a park keeper’s wife(whilst his men held her down).
Then someone fro that village, accused him of rape, Thomas killed them. Henry pardoned him for rape and murder. Then he raped Catherine and she was beheaded.




Six: almost done! Catherine Parr wanted to marry Thomas Seymour (unaware of his ways toward Elizabeth and how her slapped Elizabeth and came to her room at night in his nightclothes). Catherine was forced(not because of her family though. I know right?) You would think it would be her family. But actually she didn’t want to get sent to prison for not marrying him. So she married him. I mean sure she lived but it was hell with Henry.






So...can we all agree that all of the queens had terrible lives? I mean they did. Can we stop comparing them?
It’s not funny, it’s not amusing, it’s terrible. All the queens were good queens. Maybe not good wives but AMAZING queens. And you can’t call yourselves “fans” of one of the queens, or even “fans” of all the queens, if you keep making the other queens “bad” or “idiots”. It is not the queens’ fault that they were caught by the tyrant king and forced to marry.
So can we all agree that ALL of the queens were amazing, and it was Henry who was the tyrant, brat king and HE is the one we all should hate?

[TXRunner]

Originally Posted by Katjo4

So can we all agree that ALL of the queens were amazing, and it was Henry who was the tyrant, brat king and HE is the one we all should hate?

I can agree that the differences were not as great as some of the history books tell us. Henry the VIII was no doubt a tyrant, but tyrants were a dime a dozen during those times as well. Plenty of kings annulled their marriages back then for any reason at all, especially for not producing a male heir. Popes back then were not such great characters as well. There's a big problem in judging the past with modern eyes.

When you read enough history it's not so easy to judge most historical figures as strictly good or bad.