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The thing is, that NATO would've NEVER in 30-40 years accepted an Ukrainian membership.
The only reason that Ukraine's membership was shelved was do to the then President of Ukraine want to keep Ukraine a non-aligned nation. A lot of things have changes since then and there is more support in Ukraine to join. So, never say never.
Jackson was a sweetheart compared to Grant. It wasn't until after the Civil War that the US genocide program really got rolling. They depopulated the Great Plains in a single decade by killing off all the buffalo, along with sending the army out to attack Indian winter camps, burn their shelter and kill their livestock. When the natives got to the reservations they found the government hadn't provided food or shelter. Most of them died from exposure, disease and starvation. Hitler patterned his death camps after American Indian reservations.
I would not blame President Grant, I would not blame any single individual for the 200 years of displacement and death. Grant's policy for the native tribes of the Great Plains was well intended, but haphazardly executed without central direction. Grant merits criticism for ineptitude, but should not be viewed as some butcher of Indians, what happened was not what he intended.
There was never a US genocide program. There certainly was a displacement program and uncountable deaths as a consequence, but if there was ever any directed policy toward extinguishing all the tribes, or any particular tribe, I will require you presenting the evidence for this.
The killing that did occur was largely accidental. The Europeans had no understanding of germ theory and the great killing which took place came as a consequence of the spread of new diseases for which the tribes had no natural immunity. By definition genocide requires deliberate intent, and that did not exist. Take all their lands and shove them onto reservations where it would be impossible to live in their former lifestyles....absolutely. Exterminate them all....never part of any plan.
We dont have a Stalin, but does not mean we did not do bad things.
OK
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We used our military to take land from Natives.
So did Russia.
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We killed many civilians Central America during banana wars, in Vietnam during Vietnamese war, in Afghanistan by supporting Mujahadeen.
Russia (and the Soviets) supported insurgencies in foreign lands and backed dictators who were friendly toward them. We supported the Mujahedeen against the Soviet invasion. The Soviets supplied arms to whoever was against the U.S. They also employed disposable foreign agents (e.g. the Rosenbergs) to steal nuclear secrets.
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We had slaves once.
Russia had serfs once, which are essentially the same as slaves. They serfs in Russia were freed about the same time as our Civil War.
So, the bottom line is for everything Americans did that can be called "evil", there is a Russian counterpart. But we still never had a Stalin, and during our Revolution we did not take out a 6 year old girl (Anastasia Romanov) and her family and kill them.
Russia (and the Soviets) supported insurgencies in foreign lands and backed dictators who were friendly toward them. We supported the Mujahedeen against the Soviet invasion. The Soviets supplied arms to whoever was against the U.S. They also employed disposable foreign agents (e.g. the Rosenbergs) to steal nuclear secrets.
Russia had serfs once, which are essentially the same as slaves. They serfs in Russia were freed about the same time as our Civil War.
So, the bottom line is for everything Americans did that can be called "evil", there is a Russian counterpart. But we still never had a Stalin, and during our Revolution we did not take out a 6 year old girl (Anastasia Romanov) and her family and kill them.
But then, again, America never has been in semi-colonial situation with her money being channeled to England ( or Germany or whatever,) America didn't have kings that were ordering to shoot crowds with women and children, armed only by icons and pleas to their king.
And THAT's where Stalin and killing of Tzar's family are coming from.
But you are not familiar with THESE sides of Russian history, are you?
Russia has always been so violent, look at the gulags, how they have always had so little regard for life - even their own. During WWII their tactics pretty much was just "throw waves of our own people at the enemy and hope it works" hence the insane number of people killed. They even tried to resort to using explosive dogs to run under tanks and destroy them which backfired.
Even today they regularly assassinate people they don't like without even thinking twice. How many U.S politicians put out hits on their own people?
Not to mention it is a VERY sexist/misogynistic country. If all the men would go away and women be put in charge all of the bad things they do would go away overnight!
But then, again, America never has been in semi-colonial situation with her money being channeled to England ( or Germany or whatever,)
Instead the US was in a real colonial situation.
If Russia was in a semi-colonial situation it was only because the Russians spent all their time drinking themselves to death instead of doing something.
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Originally Posted by Staphangel
During WWII their tactics pretty much was just "throw waves of our own people at the enemy and hope it works" hence the insane number of people killed.
Well, it didn't work, so they started having machine guns behind their own lines. So if you retreat, you get killed anyway.
No, REAL colonial situation - that's the third world countries. It's India, it's Africa.
There are "colonies" and there are "colonies" you see.
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If Russia was in a semi-colonial situation it was only because the Russians spent all their time drinking themselves to death instead of doing something.
It's the other way around.
Since lower classes were exploited mercilessly in Russia non-stop, ( with refusal of the upper classes to follow the ideas of the "Age of Enlightenment,") there was nothing left for the lower classes to do but to drink in desperation, since no matter what they'd make - everything was taken away by their "superiors" and channeled for their lavish lives somewhere in Nice.
You are not familiar with the Russian literature/art enough, that testified about it over and over, until the big revolt happened called "Revolution."
Russia has always been so violent, look at the gulags, how they have always had so little regard for life - even their own. During WWII their tactics pretty much was just "throw waves of our own people at the enemy and hope it works" hence the insane number of people killed. They even tried to resort to using explosive dogs to run under tanks and destroy them which backfired.
Even today they regularly assassinate people they don't like without even thinking twice. How many U.S politicians put out hits on their own people?
Not to mention it is a VERY sexist/misogynistic country. If all the men would go away and women be put in charge all of the bad things they do would go away overnight!
Actually - it's the other way around.
The Western cultures are usually very protective of "their own," while being cruel to the "outsiders."
In Russia the cruelty is usually directed towards THEIR OWN first of all; the "outsiders" are actually treated more mercifully.
In fact this particular Russian classics describes it very well in one of its episodes ( in original language, in Russian of course, but it's kinda mentioned here too..)
If Russia was in a semi-colonial situation it was only because the Russians spent all their time drinking themselves to death instead of doing something.
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How delightfully ignorant.
Except that something like this is posted to practically millions that go through CDF.
And then it becomes not just disgusting - but dangerous.
Shame.
Russia had serfdom until 1861, an absolute monarchy until 1905, and in 1917 one brutal dictatorship was replaced by another one. In 1991 it was replaced by chaos, and then by kleptocracy. Where would Russia had gotten these grassroot movements to build a humanist democracy, especially when all dissidents have "had to go", "sleep with the fishes", "evacuated" and "disappeared under mysterious circumstances"?
Life has always been cheap in Russia, and Russia doesn't understand anything but brutal force. In Russia when two men argue, the one who wins the fistfight wins the argument. Everything else is "weak and gay".
Russia isn't Europe, it isn't Western, it doesn't even want to be. It's a hybrid of Europeanism, Mongol brutalism, Asian total submission to the state, Orthodog mysticism and corruption - ie a thing of its own.
A great post !
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