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Old 04-05-2018, 12:27 AM
 
171 posts, read 77,977 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapie9969 View Post
That the civil war was all about slavery.

True, in reality it was almost all about slavery.
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Old 04-05-2018, 01:56 AM
 
25,210 posts, read 27,518,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanAdventurer View Post
The Big Lie(TM) in capital letters would have to be the whole 20th century. Pretty much all of it is crap when you start drilling down into it.
Yes, I agree.

The amount of lies we're told is so overwhelming, people will write you off as crazy or "alt-right" or whatever the new insult is, when you start presenting the evidence.
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:12 AM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,514 posts, read 1,927,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapie9969 View Post
That the civil war was all about slavery.
Oddly enough though, if you look at the declarations of states that seceded from the union, they generally mention slavery above anything else as the cause for separation.

It wasn't the ONLY reason, but if there was no slavery....there's probably no Civil War. Politics then would probably be more like today (and 1860's version of 'Blue State' vs 'Red State' America). I'm not sure why we're loathe to admit that freeing/enslaving blacks was the cause of such a bloody war. It's as if people aren't comfortable with the idea of blackness being centered in any discussion.

The average John Doe solider likely didn't think about slavery much since he probably owned no slaves. However, the powerbrokers driving the push for secession were almost singularly concerned with slavery. The other reasons used were helpful in convincing non-slave owning whites that they too needed to join.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:56 AM
 
4,433 posts, read 1,992,603 times
Reputation: 3478
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Yes, I agree.

The amount of lies we're told is so overwhelming, people will write you off as crazy or "alt-right" or whatever the new insult is, when you start presenting the evidence.
You actually believe the lies started and ended with the 20th century.......?
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Old 04-05-2018, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
5,301 posts, read 1,765,546 times
Reputation: 8022
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn2013 View Post
Oddly enough though, if you look at the declarations of states that seceded from the union, they generally mention slavery above anything else as the cause for separation.

It wasn't the ONLY reason, but if there was no slavery....there's probably no Civil War.
If you assume the weakest "probably" in historical writing. It's entirely possible other issues might have caused a state-v-federal split sometime between maybe 1850 and, oh, 1950, but bickering over most "state's rights" issues just doesn't come to the level of secession.

It's not the only issue, but it's the only one of consequence: the Civil War was first, foremost, always and last about slavery. Other than some following issues, arguments to the contrary are the lasting poison of the 1890-1920 or so neoconfederate backlash.
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Old 04-05-2018, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Northern Appalachia
4,846 posts, read 6,035,632 times
Reputation: 5580
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanAdventurer View Post
The Big Lie(TM) in capital letters would have to be the whole 20th century. Pretty much all of it is crap when you start drilling down into it.
You probably thought this sounded profound when you typed it but it makes no sense. A timeframe can't be a lie. A greatest lie has to be something that occurred like a religious, economic, social, or government movement, or a specific event that occurred such as the election or rise to power of a government leader such as Stalin, Hitler, or Trump.

I think that was the first time I put those three names in the same sentence.
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Old 04-06-2018, 11:43 AM
 
Location: crafton pa
979 posts, read 326,004 times
Reputation: 1186
One of my favorites is the notion that Columbus was somehow an iconoclast who believed that the earth was round and he could reach the Orient by sailing westward when everyone around him "knew" the earth was flat, and that he'd never make it because he'd fall off the edge. That story is, of course, complete and utter BS. By the 15th Century almost nobody (have to say "almost" because that qualifier is needed even today) thought that the earth was flat. In fact, Columbus was opposed because what he argued in opposition to common knowledge was that the size of the earth was quite a bit smaller than what everyone thought. Everyone opposed him because they believed the trip was too long and Columbus would not be able to complete it. Of course, everyone else was right and Columbus was wrong; he never could have made it to the Orient. It was mostly dumb luck that he ran into land, and he never actually realized that the land he found was not the land he was seeking. Hence the names "West Indies" for those islands and "Indians" for the native peoples.
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Old 04-08-2018, 01:16 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
6,897 posts, read 9,597,077 times
Reputation: 6150
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
Someone born in 1954 would not have been drafted, so they would not have died in Vietnam. Guys registered for the draft when they turned 18 but were not drafted until they turned 19. The last draft call was on December 7, 1972, and the authority to induct expired on June 30, 1973. There were 646 inductees in 1973.
Ok wow, thanks for the correction. I hereby change the kid's birthday from 1954 to 1953 so he can be drafted lol. So that way my point remains.

It must have been truly unfortunate to be one of those last draftees in 1973, although I hope most of them never actually saw battle. It is truly sad when someone lives throughout most of the war only to die during the last few days.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:27 PM
 
Location: San Jose
1,661 posts, read 516,124 times
Reputation: 1842
Can't speak for world history but in American history the greatest lies generally involve the Civil War and the mythos that was built around the Confederacy. The Confederates were absolutely evil and the weight of their crimes against humanity and their betrayal of this country has been greatly downplayed. The fact that we allow their statues in public places, that we have military bases and schools named after them is insane.
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Old 04-11-2018, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
8,037 posts, read 8,043,150 times
Reputation: 6516
Actually it wasn't a civil war - it was a war for Southern Independence. The purpose being to keep the evil institution of slavery as a driver of the southern agrarian economy. And to expand it westward.

The southern states couldn't pursue that course while remaining a part of the Union.

And yes, the North aggressively prevented the breakaway. In retrospect Lincoln was correct to do so, and Jefferson Davis was the loser in that argument.

As the grunts who bore the brunt of the bloodletting lamented, it was "the rich man's war and the poor man's fight".


My direct ancestors fought for the Union, while "our" cousins were Secesh.
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