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Old 09-21-2017, 05:42 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,737 posts, read 7,534,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
One thing to remember about HISTORY is that everyone involved in any event will tell the story in a different way.. Scholars are usually the ones that write History books but they are relying on information that is often totally wrong.
I was just thinking the same thing as I made my post ...
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Old 09-21-2017, 05:48 PM
 
18,059 posts, read 25,143,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
After the War, secession was about 'anything but slavery'.

More here:

Why Non-Slaveholding Southerners Fought
https://www.civilwar.org/learn/artic...herners-fought
Dude, that's what I've said the whole time,
The main cause of the civil war was slavery
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Old 09-21-2017, 05:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
One thing to remember about HISTORY is that everyone involved in any event will tell the story in a different way.. Scholars are usually the ones that write History books but they are relying on information that is often totally wrong.
You are right,
That's why I always refer to the secession articles where they state their reasons for seceding
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Old 09-21-2017, 06:26 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
IMHO, slavery was the primary reason (but not the only reason) for the Civil War for both direct and indirect reasons.

The direct reasons are kind of obvious, for instance in November 1860 the anti-slavery party, the Republicans took over the White House and both houses of Congress. And they did so without winning a single Southern state and it looked like they would be in power for a long time to come. And so in December 1860, just a month after Lincoln was elected and before he even took office, South Carolina followed by her Deep South sisters seceded.

The indirect reasons are more complex. I think I was the one who mentioned tariffs so I will talk about that. In general, the South was against tariffs because she had those large plantations that were producing cash crops for export like cotton and tobacco to Europe. In contrast, much of the North was going into the beginnings of the Industrial Revolution, like the mill towns of New England and so wanted protective tariffs to protect their industry (something future American leaders would sadly neglect).

Anyway here is the point, what enabled the Southern plantation owners to produce massive amounts of crops for export that made them to be concerned about tariff issues in the first place? Slavery.

Now I don't think that a South Carolina plantation owner was thinking of the tariff issue as being a slave issue directly or indirectly. Rather he saw it as a tariff issue as a TARIFF issue that favored one part of the country like Massachusetts or New York over states like South Carolina, Alabama or Georgia. That is why if you really want to understand history, you have to make an effort to see issues from the perspective of the people at the time, not just looking at it from the moral perspective of today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_of_Abominations
Quote:
That is why if you really want to understand history, you have to make an effort to see issues from the perspective of the people at the time, not just looking at it from the moral perspective of today.
Very difficult to do, when we are not them. I think it is interesting that we are looking at a 3000 year old economic social construct, but only seeing the last four years of it. (not counting that which is currently going on globally in the slave industry, but then this is history not current events)

When you mentioned Tariffs, I began to vaguely recall a poster's rebuttal of 'em saying the situation had been resolved or something to that effect. Again, I don't know as I have not dug into the timeline of just how well was the Confederate States (including Maryland) doing about those Tariffs. But I did find this ...

"The tariff, Southerners objected, was essential a tax on their region to assist northern manufacturers."

I think there is part of the root. Then take into the consideration, the U.S. was forming a government and they really wasn't sure what that was going to look like when they got done. Then we get two opposing minds and the rest is as they say, is history.
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Old 09-21-2017, 06:47 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,737 posts, read 7,534,989 times
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If the op is still around and wants to dig into something, I believe I have found an excellent source of information:

Browse | Cornell University Library Making of America Collection

enjoy ...
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Old 09-21-2017, 08:13 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra View Post
No matter how you slice it or dice it, when you boil it all down, the Civil War was over slavery. Sure there were a few other things thrown in the mix but what you will hear people argue is it was over "states rights." What right were the states trying to protect?.........you guessed it....To continue to allow slavery.
Exactly. I was over slavery. And the "states rights" to own, buy, sell, work, beat, and rape other people.
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Old 09-21-2017, 08:23 PM
 
1,096 posts, read 1,041,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkthekoolaid View Post
the war was about slavery
That's a common mistake by many Americans.

The Civil War was about economic disparity between the North and the South. The North was industrialized, and the South was agricultural.

Things like the cotton gin fueled the industrialization of the North and increased the demand for even more slaves in the South -- counter to the actual intent of Eli Whitney's intent to reduce our dependency on slaves.

The North originally had no intent to give freedom to slaves. However, when war broke out, it crippled the South's agricultural economy by supporting freedom of slaves. What did the slaves do? Flee the farms of the South and run to the North. Agriculture came to a halt and the economy was crippled.
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Old 09-21-2017, 08:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Exactly. I was over slavery. And the "states rights" to own, buy, sell, work, beat, and rape other people.
Jesus Christ,
It wasn't about state rights
The South was pro-federal government and angry that the North was not complying with federal mandated pro-slavery laws.

The South was losing slaves, the North was passing state laws to protect runaway slaves
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Old 09-21-2017, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Colorado
389 posts, read 328,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Why Non-Slaveholding Southerners Fought
https://www.civilwar.org/learn/artic...herners-fought
Vote to secede was in the state legislatures. I do wonder how they managed to fire up the common people and actually get their support. I bet more than a few fought just because it was what they were expected to do. No big political alignment, no fear of impending revolt, but huge social pressure.
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Old 09-21-2017, 10:42 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,737 posts, read 7,534,989 times
Reputation: 2573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
Jesus Christ,
It wasn't about state rights
The South was pro-federal government and angry that the North was not complying with federal mandated pro-slavery laws.

The South was losing slaves, the North was passing state laws to protect runaway slaves
Were they? I think it was South Carolina's articles of succession, that it says something to the effect, 'without making provisions none better' in the area of the northerners passing laws that abolished slavery. I think I have found what they meant by that ...

the exclusion law

" "[R]ace prejudice seems stronger in those states that have abolished slavery than in those where it still exists, and nowhere is it more intolerant than in those states where slavery was never known." --Alexis De Tocqueville, "Democracy in America" "

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 09-21-2017 at 10:43 PM.. Reason: html
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