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Say Catherine of Aragon had been successful in giving ol Henry a son or two that of course lived and were otherwise healthy, do you think that would've changed him in his constant marrying/executing shtick?
Say Catherine of Aragon had been successful in giving ol Henry a son or two that of course lived and were otherwise healthy, do you think that would've changed him in his constant marrying/executing shtick?
Probably. He would have been a serial philanderer but may not have been so aggressive in trying to get his marriage annulled.
Of course one could also ask another question: if he didn't feel that his claim to the throne was so tenuous, would Henry VIII have been as worried about having a son? Probably so, but who knows.
One of the great "What ifs" in history. No Church of England. No Queen Elizabeth I. No Armada. No "Virginia". Possibly no Pilgrims or Puritans. History as we know it turned on its head.
As England was the most faithful Castilian ally, they would have an earlier participation in America. No need to become pirates or settle land without resources. No schism, no civil wars. France and the low countries would have suffered much.
Probably still crazy. I remember reading as a younger man he had been knocked from his horse during a jousting tournament. Contemporaries said he was mentally off for the rest of his life.
True, plus he developed a painful, open sore on his leg that never healed...that in itself could make you nuts.
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Originally Posted by msgsing
Probably still crazy. I remember reading as a younger man he had been knocked from his horse during a jousting tournament. Contemporaries said he was mentally off for the rest of his life.
Probably still crazy. I remember reading as a younger man he had been knocked from his horse during a jousting tournament. Contemporaries said he was mentally off for the rest of his life.
Henry was unhorsed and injured in that tournament in 1536, when he was 44 years old. He was apparently unconscious for two hours, and feared dead, when he awoke. Nearly five months later, he had his second queen, Anne Boleyn, executed; and, an indecent 10 days later, he married Jane Seymour. The injury could have altered his behavior; but his increasing impatience, paranoia and cruelty could also have been an exacerbation of traits that already existed and increased due to aging, more pain due to the ulcers on his leg, and disappointment in his wives. There is also a theory suggesting that Henry could have suffered from McLeod Syndrome; a disease that afflicts men starting around 40 and has symptoms including heart trouble, movement disorders, paranoia and mental decline.
Probably. He would have been a serial philanderer but may not have been so aggressive in trying to get his marriage annulled.
Of course one could also ask another question: if he didn't feel that his claim to the throne was so tenuous, would Henry VIII have been as worried about having a son? Probably so, but who knows.
Wasn't just Henry VIII that was worried about claims to the English throne; but the entire Tudor family, which is natural enough when you understand how they came to rise in first place.
Henry VII basically claimed the throne by right of conquest, which is a very not firm foundation indeed. When Arthur, Prince of Wales died it left a void that Henry (VIII) went onto fill. With only the one son left Henry VII brow beat it into his heir that he needed to have sons. Like an other monarch who came to power via conquest Boris Bodunov leaving surviving heirs can cement a dynasties hold on crown. It didn't work for Boris, nor for that matter Henry VII but for different reasons.
It never occurred to Henry VIII (like his father) that a woman could rule England. Thus like Henry's sister Margaret, Princess Mary was discounted and Henry wanted a son. The fact he had at least one if not more by-blow sons in his mind meant the problem wasn't with him, but Catherine of Aragon. The queen's repeated miscarriages, stillbirths and otherwise failing to produce a thriving male heir was one stroke against her; the other was the good lady was aging out of her baby making days. Though only about six years older, Catherine of Aragon was simply worn out, as any other woman might have been by then and thus Henry saw no real possibility of fulfilling his father's request (demand); to have sons.
Rest of story we all know; the sad drama of the Tudor dynasty played out with Edward, Mary then finally Elizabeth. In the end things ended up where they would have anyway with heirs of Margaret Tudor (via Mary, Queen of Scots) taking over the English throne were they still remain today.
One of the great "What ifs" in history. No Church of England. No Queen Elizabeth I. No Armada. No "Virginia". Possibly no Pilgrims or Puritans. History as we know it turned on its head.
No judicial murder of a good number of the Tudor family or close enough by Henry VIII. Ditto for Mary, Queen of Scots. However the real loss might have been no Elizabethan period. Would that have meant no William Shakespeare as well? One shudders to think.....
Henry was unhorsed and injured in that tournament in 1536, when he was 44 years old. He was apparently unconscious for two hours, and feared dead, when he awoke. Nearly five months later, he had his second queen, Anne Boleyn, executed; and, an indecent 10 days later, he married Jane Seymour. The injury could have altered his behavior; but his increasing impatience, paranoia and cruelty could also have been an exacerbation of traits that already existed and increased due to aging, more pain due to the ulcers on his leg, and disappointment in his wives. There is also a theory suggesting that Henry could have suffered from McLeod Syndrome; a disease that afflicts men starting around 40 and has symptoms including heart trouble, movement disorders, paranoia and mental decline.
I agree with all of this.
Henry VIII is one of the most awful, and tragic, figures in history in my opinion.
I admire Catherine of Aragon and Catherine Parr especially among his wives.
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