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Old 04-05-2018, 03:03 PM
 
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Just reading though Owen Wister book. Not sure what the President means when he mentions 'auxiliaries to the regular English soldiers '?


Arthur Young was a reliable observer, whose ''Tour in Ireland'' is a mine of information used by many historians. Writing of this emigration which was still going on during his tour (1780), he declares: ''The Catholics never went; they seem not only tied to the country , but almost to the parish in which their ancestors lived.''

And the American Owen Wister is even more out-spoken: '' Americans are being told in these days that they have a debt of support to Irish independence, because the Irish fought with us in our own struggle for independence. Yes, the Irish did, and we do owe them a debt of support. But it was the Orange Irish who fought in our Revolution and not the Green Irish.''

President Theodore Roosevelt, in his History of New York, does not mince his words. ''It is a curious fact,'' he says ''that in the Revolutionary war. the Germans and the Catholic Irish should have furnished the bulk of the auxiliaries to the regular English soldiers; but the fiercest and most ardent Americans of all were the Presbyterian Irish settlers and their descendants.''
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Old 04-06-2018, 03:02 PM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
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Originally Posted by Ulsterman View Post
Just reading though Owen Wister book. Not sure what the President means when he mentions 'auxiliaries to the regular English soldiers '?

Arthur Young was a reliable observer, whose ''Tour in Ireland'' is a mine of information used by many historians. Writing of this emigration which was still going on during his tour (1780), he declares: ''The Catholics never went; they seem not only tied to the country , but almost to the parish in which their ancestors lived.''

And the American Owen Wister is even more out-spoken: '' Americans are being told in these days that they have a debt of support to Irish independence, because the Irish fought with us in our own struggle for independence. Yes, the Irish did, and we do owe them a debt of support. But it was the Orange Irish who fought in our Revolution and not the Green Irish.''

President Theodore Roosevelt, in his History of New York, does not mince his words. ''It is a curious fact,'' he says ''that in the Revolutionary war. the Germans and the Catholic Irish should have furnished the bulk of the auxiliaries to the regular English soldiers; but the fiercest and most ardent Americans of all were the Presbyterian Irish settlers and their descendants.''
Perhaps the mention of Ulstermen being "auxiliaries" to the regular English soldiers was due to the English being the first arrivals ahead of the Ulstermen. Can't say for sure because I have not read any of Owen Wister's books. Besides...we already know what a huge contribution was made to America by the Ulster Scots-Irish!

The Contribution of ULSTER to the UNITED STATES of AMERICA

Ulstermen moved to the New World in such numbers that they became the most important element in the colonial population of America after the English.

The Contribution of ULSTER to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

I am looking to acquire this book and look forward to reading it.

Karen F. McCarthy’s The Other Irish:

The Scots-Irish Rascals Who Made America is a sweeping social history of the Scots-Irish that focuses on their contributions to American culture.

Around 200,000 Scots-Irish Presbyterians left Ulster from 1717 to the American Revolution. 100,000 immigrated between 1783 and 1812. 500,000 more came between 1815 and 1845. Finally, 900,000 came to America between 1850 and 1900.

Review: The Other Irish – Occidental Dissent
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Old 04-07-2018, 12:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HomeIsWhere... View Post
Perhaps the mention of Ulstermen being "auxiliaries" to the regular English soldiers was due to the English being the first arrivals ahead of the Ulstermen. Can't say for sure because I have not read any of Owen Wister's books. Besides...we already know what a huge contribution was made to America by the Ulster Scots-Irish!

The Contribution of ULSTER to the UNITED STATES of AMERICA

Ulstermen moved to the New World in such numbers that they became the most important element in the colonial population of America after the English.

The Contribution of ULSTER to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

I am looking to acquire this book and look forward to reading it.

Karen F. McCarthy’s The Other Irish:

The Scots-Irish Rascals Who Made America is a sweeping social history of the Scots-Irish that focuses on their contributions to American culture.

Around 200,000 Scots-Irish Presbyterians left Ulster from 1717 to the American Revolution. 100,000 immigrated between 1783 and 1812. 500,000 more came between 1815 and 1845. Finally, 900,000 came to America between 1850 and 1900.

Review: The Other Irish – Occidental Dissent
Aye, would say you are right re my query about the auxiliaries.


I couldn't get on to your bottom link. It has been blocked by Virgin. I read though the first link and it is well informed on the contribution made by the Ullish people to the making of America. Ulster is roughly the same size as Yorkshire so for its size it 'punched well above its weight'.

Dr Adamson sometimes refers to them as the Cruthin and he may be right.

The numbers you quote are probably right but there must have been very few left at different times. The Protestant population in the 1700s is given as 400,000. James Webb said there was a big exodus to Scotland in the 1600s but goes on to say that 50,000 returned to Ulster after the Boyne. They were always 'between a rock and a hard place'

Read though a good piece of A Straight Deal and Wisner does seem to see England in a different light to most Americans. He does criticize England but goes on to point out the faults in America, Spain, France and other countries. His reference to Ulster which I quoted is at the end of the book.

https://www.readanybook.com/ebook/a-...ht-deal-113516
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Old 04-07-2018, 05:40 PM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
4,099 posts, read 3,390,521 times
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Originally Posted by Ulsterman View Post
Aye, would say you are right re my query about the auxiliaries.

I couldn't get on to your bottom link. It has been blocked by Virgin. I read though the first link and it is well informed on the contribution made by the Ullish people to the making of America. Ulster is roughly the same size as Yorkshire so for its size it 'punched well above its weight'.

Dr Adamson sometimes refers to them as the Cruthin and he may be right.

"Cruithne were a people of early medieval Ireland"

Okay so I've pulled this up and will read it and educate myself.

Dr. Ian Adamson OBE - The Ulster People:20 – The Pretani

The ancient inhabitants of the British Isles had been known to the Greeks as the ‘Pretani’. Later ‘Pretani’ became ‘Cruthin’ and when medieval Irish writers referred to these people it is clear they considered them to inhabit both Ireland and Scotland.


The Ulster People:20 – The Pretani | Dr. Ian Adamson OBE

The numbers you quote are probably right but there must have been very few left at different times. The Protestant population in the 1700s is given as 400,000. James Webb said there was a big exodus to Scotland in the 1600s but goes on to say that 50,000 returned to Ulster after the Boyne. They were always 'between a rock and a hard place'

Honestly Ulsterman I couldn't say if the numbers are right or wrong or perhaps fabricated but I think in some cases the truth seems to be a matter of who is doing the telling, regardless of the information at hand. Also, I think that applies to a great many things, in general.

Read though a good piece of A Straight Deal and Wisner does seem to see England in a different light to most Americans. He does criticize England but goes on to point out the faults in America, Spain, France and other countries. His reference to Ulster which I quoted is at the end of the book.

I have also pulled this up and will read it as well.

https://www.readanybook.com/ebook/a-...ht-deal-113516
And as always, thanks for your input on all things Ulster, sincerely.
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Old 04-07-2018, 05:53 PM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
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P.S. Wanted to add these as well in the event you want to and are able to pull any of these up in regards to Karen F. McCarthy’s book, The Other Irish.

The Southern Cradle: A Review of The Other Irish by Karen F. McCarthy

https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/b...e-other-irish/

The Other Irish - The Scots-Irish Rascals Who Made America

What do Mark Twain, Neil Armstrong, and John McCain have in common? They're all descendants of a merry group of Scots-Irish braggarts that crossed the Atlantic from Ireland in the early 1700s and settled in America's South. Also known as the "Other Irish," this wild bunch of patriotic, rebellious, fervently religious rascals gave us the NRA, at least fourteen presidents, decisive victories in the Revolutionary War, a third of today's US Military, country music, Star Wars, the Munchkins, American-style Democracy, and even the religious right . . . not to mention NASCAR, whose roots go back to Prohibition-era moonshine runners. Yet few Americans are familiar with the Other Irish or their contributions to American culture. Now author and documentary filmmaker Karen McCarthy shines a probing light on this fascinating topic, illuminating the extent to which the Scots-Irish helped weave the fabric of our nation.

https://www.overdrive.com/media/847897/the-other-irish

IRISH EDITION

Acclaimed journalist and documentary filmmaker Karen F. McCarthy’s non-fiction debut The Other Irish: The Scots-Irish Rascals Who Made America (Sterling Publishing, 2011) chronicles the strong, yet under-noted Scots-Irish influence on the shaping of the American character.

The Other Irish: The Scots-Irish Rascals Who Made America – irishedition.com
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Old 04-08-2018, 11:21 AM
 
980 posts, read 541,524 times
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Originally Posted by HomeIsWhere... View Post
And as always, thanks for your input on all things Ulster, sincerely.
Your welcome HomeIsWhere and thank you for your interest in the subject. So many people are apt to ignore the Ulster influence in America.
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Old 04-08-2018, 11:39 AM
 
980 posts, read 541,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeIsWhere... View Post
P.S. Wanted to add these as well in the event you want to and are able to pull any of these up in regards to Karen F. McCarthy’s book, The Other Irish.

The Southern Cradle: A Review of The Other Irish by Karen F. McCarthy

https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/b...e-other-irish/

The Other Irish - The Scots-Irish Rascals Who Made America

What do Mark Twain, Neil Armstrong, and John McCain have in common? They're all descendants of a merry group of Scots-Irish braggarts that crossed the Atlantic from Ireland in the early 1700s and settled in America's South. Also known as the "Other Irish," this wild bunch of patriotic, rebellious, fervently religious rascals gave us the NRA, at least fourteen presidents, decisive victories in the Revolutionary War, a third of today's US Military, country music, Star Wars, the Munchkins, American-style Democracy, and even the religious right . . . not to mention NASCAR, whose roots go back to Prohibition-era moonshine runners. Yet few Americans are familiar with the Other Irish or their contributions to American culture. Now author and documentary filmmaker Karen McCarthy shines a probing light on this fascinating topic, illuminating the extent to which the Scots-Irish helped weave the fabric of our nation.

https://www.overdrive.com/media/847897/the-other-irish

IRISH EDITION

Acclaimed journalist and documentary filmmaker Karen F. McCarthy’s non-fiction debut The Other Irish: The Scots-Irish Rascals Who Made America (Sterling Publishing, 2011) chronicles the strong, yet under-noted Scots-Irish influence on the shaping of the American character.

The Other Irish: The Scots-Irish Rascals Who Made America – irishedition.com
Great links you have posted. I was really surprised at Karen's book and how she told the story our people. It was like a breath of fresh air It is unusual for someone to say it as she has. Ruth Dudley Edwards another Dubliner has also written in similar terms but not as forthright as Karen and more to do with the situation in Ulster rather than the immigration to America. I have added the links to some others I have.


The first ship from Ulster to reach America was the Friends Goodwill . It sailed from Larne in 1717 but before that the Eagle Wing set sail from Groomsport in 1636. I came across a blog which has some information and links.

A monument in the Curran Park commemorates the Friends Goodwill, the first emigrant ship to sail from Larne in May 1717, heading for Boston, New England in the modern United States.

The Eagle Wing ship sailed from Groomsport in 1636 but turned back due to weather conditions. Seems they took this as a sign that God did not wish them to go any farther.

https://ulsterconnections.blogspot.c...antrim-to.html

The "Eagle Wing" 1636 - Presbyterian Historical Society of Ireland
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:16 PM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
4,099 posts, read 3,390,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeIsWhere... View Post
And as always, thanks for your input on all things Ulster, sincerely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulsterman View Post
Your welcome HomeIsWhere and thank you for your interest in the subject. So many people are apt to ignore the Ulster influence in America.

I would honestly say to you that prior to stumbling on the Ulster Scots thread I would place myself among the "many people who are apt to ignore the Ulster influence", not for any other reason than true ignorance on my part. I am now, wholeheartedly a 'convert' and in my internet searches concerning this subject as well as genealogy, I find more and more articles of information and, not surprisingly, related genealogical sites to pursue. It seems to me, relatedly or not, that one thing leads to another and the Ulster influence has led me to places I would never have pursued had I not started reading the Ulster-Scots/Scotch Irish thread (re: England, Ireland, Wales).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulsterman View Post
Great links you have posted. I was really surprised at Karen's book and how she told the story our people. It was like a breath of fresh air It is unusual for someone to say it as she has. Ruth Dudley Edwards another Dubliner has also written in similar terms but not as forthright as Karen and more to do with the situation in Ulster rather than the immigration to America. I have added the links to some others I have.

Glad you enjoyed it Ulsterman.

The first ship from Ulster to reach America was the Friends Goodwill . It sailed from Larne in 1717 but before that the Eagle Wing set sail from Groomsport in 1636. I came across a blog which has some information and links.

A monument in the Curran Park commemorates the Friends Goodwill, the first emigrant ship to sail from Larne in May 1717, heading for Boston, New England in the modern United States.

The Eagle Wing ship sailed from Groomsport in 1636 but turned back due to weather conditions. Seems they took this as a sign that God did not wish them to go any farther.

https://ulsterconnections.blogspot.c...antrim-to.html

The "Eagle Wing" 1636 - Presbyterian Historical Society of Ireland

Well, I apologize but I have not made it to these sites yet (but I will) as I am still working on the online version of A STRAIGHT DEAL OR THE ANCIENT GRUDGE by Owen Wister; 21 pages to go.

Prior to beginning my read I did pull up these 'notes of interest' concerning Owen Wister's book and found them to be revealing and personal concerning Wister's background.

A STRAIGHT DEAL OR THE ANCIENT GRUDGE by Owen Wister

Thinking comes hard to all of us. To some it never comes at all, because their heads lack the machinery.

Overview

This work has been selected by scholars as being culturally important and is part of the knowledge base of civilization as we know it. This work was reproduced from the original artifact and remains as true to the original work as possible. Therefore, you will see the original copyright references, library stamps (as most of these works have been housed in our most important libraries around the world) and other notations in the work. This work is in the public domain in the United States of America and possibly other nations. Within the United States, you may freely copy and distribute this work, as no entity (individual or corporate) has a copyright on the body of the work. As a reproduction of a historical artifact, this work may contain missing or blurred pages, poor pictures, errant marks, etc. Scholars believe and we concur, that this work is important enough to be preserved, reproduced, and made generally available to the public. We appreciate your support of the preservation process and thank you for being an important part of keeping this knowledge alive and relevant.

A Straight Deal : Or, the Ancient Grudge by Owen Wister (Hardcover): Booksamillion.com: Books

Overview

1921. Wister, an American writer whose stories helped to establish the cowboy as an archetypical, individualist hero. In a Straight Deal Wister examines British/American relations and the three points behind America's grudge against England: American schoolbooks which are biased in favor of England; various controversies since the Revolution and certain differences in customs and manners. He also makes a plea for the restoral of good relations.

A Straight Deal or the Ancient Grudge by Owen Wister (Paperback): Booksamillion.com: Books

About the author (2005)

A Philadelphian and grandson of the actress Fanny Kemble, Owen Wister was educated in private schools in the United States and abroad and graduated from Harvard University with highest honors in music. After suffering a nervous breakdown, he traveled to Wyoming to recover his health. He then made frequent trips back to the West. His only well-known novel, The Virginian (1902), a bestseller for years, is a pioneer western about a man Wister considered to be the "last heroic figure" of America. It was dedicated to his lifelong friend Theodore Roosevelt, another outdoorsman and lover of the West, whom he had met when they were both students at Harvard. Although often ignored as serious literature, Wister's novel with its archetypal hero has widely influenced popular western novels and films. Two of Wister's reprinted books are Lin McLean (1898) and Lady Baltimore (1906).

[urlhttps://books.google.com/books/about/A_Straight_Deal_Or_the_Ancient_Grudge.html?id=v98F 4fOm3REC[/url]
Pages and pages...

Last edited by HomeIsWhere...; 04-08-2018 at 08:28 PM..
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Old 04-10-2018, 01:53 PM
 
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HomeIsWhere. I skipped some of the pages in A Straight Deal. It was a very detailed study. Something a bit shorter.


Ulster-Scots womenfolk of the Appalachian backcountry performed significant heroics during the Revolutionary War many went beyond their normal call of domestic duty in the home to ensure that their husbands,sons and brothers in the American patriot militia units received all the back-up they needed in resources.

Margaret Catherine (Kate) Barry, from Walnut Grove, Spartanburg in South Carolina is considered one of the outstanding heroines of the Revolutionary War, for the part she played in saving lives during the Battle of Cowpens in January 1781.

Another heroine was Mary McKeehan Patton, who with her Ulster-born husband John Patton, made the gunpowder that was used by the Overmountain Men from the Watauga region of North Carolina at the Battle of Kings Mountain.

Kate Barry was the daughter of Co Antrim couple Charles and Mary Barry Moore, who emigrated to America at about 1750. She was a woman of hardy resolve, married at 15 to Captain Andrew Barry, who was also from a Scots-Irish family that had settled in the Tyger River region of South Carolina. The couple had eleven children, five sons and six daughters, and Katie performed duties as a volunteer scout and guide for the South Carolina Piedmont patriots, always acting in support of her husband.

This highly motivated frontierswoman even engaged in rounding up militia troops when reinforcements were required. At the Battle of Cowpens she took responsibility for gathering up patriot groups and moving them to strategic points in the frontline of battle. Her husband was holding the line with General Andrew Pickens against the British Redcoat troops under the command of Banastre Tarleton.

As the battle ensued at Cowpens, the women of Nazarath Presbyterian Church, 13 miles away, were assembled in a house near the church and a vigilant Kate Barry was at the shoals on the Tyger River, waiting for reports from the battlefield.
When news of the crushing victory for the patriots was passed along she rushed to the Church to inform the women. At Cowpens, 926 of Tarleton's troops were killed, captured or wounded and many armaments were taken. On the American side, 132 were killed and 60 wounded.
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Old 04-11-2018, 03:26 PM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
4,099 posts, read 3,390,521 times
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Originally Posted by Ulsterman View Post
HomeIsWhere. I skipped some of the pages in A Straight Deal. It was a very detailed study. Something a bit shorter.

Ulster-Scots womenfolk of the Appalachian backcountry performed significant heroics during the Revolutionary War many went beyond their normal call of domestic duty in the home to ensure that their husbands,sons and brothers in the American patriot militia units received all the back-up they needed in resources.

Margaret Catherine (Kate) Barry, from Walnut Grove, Spartanburg in South Carolina is considered one of the outstanding heroines of the Revolutionary War, for the part she played in saving lives during the Battle of Cowpens in January 1781.

Another heroine was Mary McKeehan Patton, who with her Ulster-born husband John Patton, made the gunpowder that was used by the Overmountain Men from the Watauga region of North Carolina at the Battle of Kings Mountain.

Kate Barry was the daughter of Co Antrim couple Charles and Mary Barry Moore, who emigrated to America at about 1750. She was a woman of hardy resolve, married at 15 to Captain Andrew Barry, who was also from a Scots-Irish family that had settled in the Tyger River region of South Carolina. The couple had eleven children, five sons and six daughters, and Katie performed duties as a volunteer scout and guide for the South Carolina Piedmont patriots, always acting in support of her husband.

This highly motivated frontierswoman even engaged in rounding up militia troops when reinforcements were required. At the Battle of Cowpens she took responsibility for gathering up patriot groups and moving them to strategic points in the frontline of battle. Her husband was holding the line with General Andrew Pickens against the British Redcoat troops under the command of Banastre Tarleton.

As the battle ensued at Cowpens, the women of Nazarath Presbyterian Church, 13 miles away, were assembled in a house near the church and a vigilant Kate Barry was at the shoals on the Tyger River, waiting for reports from the battlefield.
When news of the crushing victory for the patriots was passed along she rushed to the Church to inform the women. At Cowpens, 926 of Tarleton's troops were killed, captured or wounded and many armaments were taken. On the American side, 132 were killed and 60 wounded.
A great read Ulsterman!

I am not surprised that women of Ulster-Scots/Scotch-Irish ancestry weren't the complete mirror image of the Ulster-Scots/Scotch-Irish men. They were devoted and loyal people to their husbands/wives, their families, their communities and most of all to their new found country of America. They are a fierce people with no limitations on their sense of responsibility and duty.

Not surprisingly, yet another view.

Carter G Woodson, Berea College (Kentucky) and the term 'Scotch-Irish' yet again

"… the strongest stock among these immigrants, however, were the Scotch-Irish, "a God-fearing, Sabbath-keeping, covenant-adhering, liberty-loving and tyrant-hating race" which had formed its ideals under the influence of philosophy of John Calvin, John Knox, Andrew Melville, and George Buchanan.

Carter G Woodson, Berea College (Kentucky) and the term 'Scotch-Irish' yet again | Bloggin fae the 'Burn: <i>Ulster-Scots thoughts</i>
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