Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes, people are Asian, objects can be oriental. But historically, people used to also be referred to as oriental. It is now considered offensive. Just because it used to be that way doesn't mean it still is. Just like with "Scotch".
You're not a messenger, you're making an argument, one that has no foundation in today's modern world. The bible is not a source for modern terminology and the law has nothing to do with this. You're not even making any sense now.
No I am not the messenger anymore than YOU are but please...have it your way PA2UK as you have no argument from me but rather your own insistence and obstinance.
I make as much sense as you do but you're just hanging on to this bone for whatever reason you have determined beneficial to you in some manner or another. Have at it girl, this is my last word on such a minor post which you have insisted on dragging out. I suspect somewhere in my replies I have offended you or someone you hold in high esteem....very unfortunate.
Well it's difficult when you don't know what the topic is beyond "Scotch-Irish" but I will do my best:
I thought I was Scottish on my fathers side until we traced his history back farther and found his relatives originally immigrated from Ireland to Scotland, then to America. So I am part "Scotch-Irish" but even that is a misnomer. It's not Scottish at all but Irish.
So it's really incorrect to use the term "Scotch-Irish". I understand the term was used to identify one group of immigrants from arriving during one period of US history, from other groups of immigrants from Ireland. Kind of like an exclusive label.
Scottish people are a mix of Irish and the indigenous Picts of Scotland...
‘The humour of going to America still continues,’ Dr Boulter wrote in 1729; ‘and the scarity of provisons certainly makes many quit us. There are now seven ships at Belfast that are carrying off about 1,000 passengers thither.’
At this point immigration virtually ceased and for the next sixty years there was a spectacular out-pouring of ‘Scotch-Irish’ to America. By the middle of the eigthteenth century it was reckoned that 12,000 were leaving Ulster every year.
Belfast was the most important port of departure, even though the most distressed areas were in the west of Ulster. Between 1750 and 1775 at least 143 emigrant vessels left Belfast for America, 65 of them with Philadelphia as their destination. For many, America was indeed, as one advertisement put it, ‘the Land of Promise’; a notice in the ‘Belfast News Letter’ in 1766 informing the public that the ‘Falls’ was shortly to sail from Belfast to Nova Scotia called on readers to embrace ‘such a favourable opportunity by settling themselves to advantage by removal to that country, a removal which cannot fail to give freedom, peace, and plenty to those who now wish to enjoy those blessings’. America was a land of limitless opportunity to Ulster Scots, where their skills in taming a wild country would be highly valued, and where the Presbyterian work-ethic would receive its just reward, as de Crevecoeur wrote invitingly in 1782:
Welcome to my shores….bless the hour thou didst see my verdant fields, my navigable rivers, and my green mountains!- if thou wilt work, I have bread for thee; if thou wilt be honest, sober, and industrious, I have greater rewards to confer on thee – ease and independence. I willl give thee fields and clothe thee; a comfortable fireside to sit by, and tell thy children by what means thy has prospered…
The journey from Belfast across the Atlantic could be perilous, especially when fever broke out on board, or when ships were delayed by calms and contrary winds. In 1729, 175 people died on board two vessels from Belfast during the crossing. In 1741 the ‘Seaflower’ sprang her mast en route from Belfast to Philadelphia; forty-six passengers died and six of their corpses were eaten in desperation by the survivors. A fortnight of storms drove the ‘Sally’ off her course from Belfast to Philadelphia in 1762, and sixty-four passengers died. John Smilie survived this voyage and wrote an account of it for his father:
……Hunger and Thirst had now reduced our Crew to the last Extremity; nothing was now to be heard aboard our Ship but the Cries of distressed children, and their distressed Mothers, unable to relieve them. Our Ship now was truly a real Spectacle of Horror! Never a day passed without one of our Crew put over Board; many kill’d themselves by drinking Salt Water; and their own Urine was a common Drink; yet in the midst of alll our Miseries, our Captain shewed not the least Remorse or pity…..
‘The humour of going to America still continues,’ Dr Boulter wrote in 1729; ‘and the scarity of provisons certainly makes many quit us. There are now seven ships at Belfast that are carrying off about 1,000 passengers thither.’
At this point immigration virtually ceased and for the next sixty years there was a spectacular out-pouring of ‘Scotch-Irish’ to America. By the middle of the eigthteenth century it was reckoned that 12,000 were leaving Ulster every year.
Belfast was the most important port of departure, even though the most distressed areas were in the west of Ulster. Between 1750 and 1775 at least 143 emigrant vessels left Belfast for America, 65 of them with Philadelphia as their destination. For many, America was indeed, as one advertisement put it, ‘the Land of Promise’; a notice in the ‘Belfast News Letter’ in 1766 informing the public that the ‘Falls’ was shortly to sail from Belfast to Nova Scotia called on readers to embrace ‘such a favourable opportunity by settling themselves to advantage by removal to that country, a removal which cannot fail to give freedom, peace, and plenty to those who now wish to enjoy those blessings’. America was a land of limitless opportunity to Ulster Scots, where their skills in taming a wild country would be highly valued, and where the Presbyterian work-ethic would receive its just reward, as de Crevecoeur wrote invitingly in 1782:
Welcome to my shores….bless the hour thou didst see my verdant fields, my navigable rivers, and my green mountains!- if thou wilt work, I have bread for thee; if thou wilt be honest, sober, and industrious, I have greater rewards to confer on thee – ease and independence. I willl give thee fields and clothe thee; a comfortable fireside to sit by, and tell thy children by what means thy has prospered…
The journey from Belfast across the Atlantic could be perilous, especially when fever broke out on board, or when ships were delayed by calms and contrary winds. In 1729, 175 people died on board two vessels from Belfast during the crossing. In 1741 the ‘Seaflower’ sprang her mast en route from Belfast to Philadelphia; forty-six passengers died and six of their corpses were eaten in desperation by the survivors. A fortnight of storms drove the ‘Sally’ off her course from Belfast to Philadelphia in 1762, and sixty-four passengers died. John Smilie survived this voyage and wrote an account of it for his father:
……Hunger and Thirst had now reduced our Crew to the last Extremity; nothing was now to be heard aboard our Ship but the Cries of distressed children, and their distressed Mothers, unable to relieve them. Our Ship now was truly a real Spectacle of Horror! Never a day passed without one of our Crew put over Board; many kill’d themselves by drinking Salt Water; and their own Urine was a common Drink; yet in the midst of alll our Miseries, our Captain shewed not the least Remorse or pity…..
I don't recall having seen this material previously Ulsterman however along a similar time frame there appears to have been prisoners (Jacobite soldiers and others) which were sent to the American colonies to relieve Britain of the financial burden for their maintenance and upkeep.
Doesn't seem that either group of immigrants had an easy time of it, though.
Convict Labor during the Colonial Period
Between 1700 and 1775, approximately 52,200 convicts sailed for the colonies, more than 20,000 of them to Virginia. Most of these convicts landed and were settled along the Potomac and Rappahannock rivers. Although many were unskilled and thus put to work in agriculture, particularly tobacco production, others with skills were sold to tradesmen, shipbuilders, and iron manufacturers, and for other similar occupations.
I don't recall having seen this material previously Ulsterman however along a similar time frame there appears to have been prisoners (Jacobite soldiers and others) which were sent to the American colonies to relieve Britain of the financial burden for their maintenance and upkeep.
Doesn't seem that either group of immigrants had an easy time of it, though.
Convict Labor during the Colonial Period
Between 1700 and 1775, approximately 52,200 convicts sailed for the colonies, more than 20,000 of them to Virginia. Most of these convicts landed and were settled along the Potomac and Rappahannock rivers. Although many were unskilled and thus put to work in agriculture, particularly tobacco production, others with skills were sold to tradesmen, shipbuilders, and iron manufacturers, and for other similar occupations.
HomeIsWhere Its interesting to read about the convicts who were slaves and not just them but others. In two movies there was a mention of people being sent to America to be slaves. If memory is correct one was Kidnapped and the other Unconquered.
Unconquered had a girl sent to America and Kidnapped was of course the boy going to be sent to the Carolinas but he escaped before they could take him away. At that time that was about all I knew of folk who were taken to America
Yes it was hard times and I don't think I would have lasted long
Hmm...interesting that you mention the Ullans language and it not being spoken as commonly as it once was. I suppose it could be due to the cultural changes which occur over time in any society as more recent immigrants bring their customs and languages. Perhaps the older established languages and customs are being replaced. Maybe the established generations are not as vigilant at passing their language and customs on to their children and/or the children prefer to blend in and not be viewed as 'outsiders'. Honestly, what do I know, just a guess on my part.
Saving a language is one thing, but I'm saddened by Scotland going Gaelic
The charter, which the UK ratified in 2001, asks that all be encouraged to survive. Two of them, Scots and Ulster Scots (aka Ullans), would be contested as languages separate from English or each other, and some might argue that Ullans was invented for purely political reasons, as a Protestant counterweight to the Irish Gaelic that was recognised by Northern Ireland's peace agreement.
Hmm...interesting that you mention the Ullans language and it not being spoken as commonly as it once was. I suppose it could be due to the cultural changes which occur over time in any society as more recent immigrants bring their customs and languages. Perhaps the older established languages and customs are being replaced. Maybe the established generations are not as vigilant at passing their language and customs on to their children and/or the children prefer to blend in and not be viewed as 'outsiders'. Honestly, what do I know, just a guess on my part.
Saving a language is one thing, but I'm saddened by Scotland going Gaelic
The charter, which the UK ratified in 2001, asks that all be encouraged to survive. Two of them, Scots and Ulster Scots (aka Ullans), would be contested as languages separate from English or each other, and some might argue that Ullans was invented for purely political reasons, as a Protestant counterweight to the Irish Gaelic that was recognised by Northern Ireland's peace agreement.
Yes, there seems to be an interest in Gaelic now but it has a long way to go before it become the biggest language...if at all. But Billy Kay is for the Scotch Language
Some words used in conversation of Ulster Scots speech (Ullans)
Ulster has it's own dialect / language known as Ulster Scots or 'Ullans' - as recognised by the European Union. Reflecting the Ulster nationality it is a language of blunt speech and few words. Predominant in counties Antrim, Down and east Donegal, it's influence is felt throughout Ulster - tha heirskip o a' oor ain kinfowk (the heritage of all our own people).
'Ah'm in wil bod fettle wi yon dreech loanen noo wi a' tha stuckin' clabber an' drookit stoor on tha wa'. It's a wil' midden an' ah'l hae tae redd it oot afore Ah gae hame'
'Ah' m geh drookit frae efter cae'in doon tha brae; tha sheughs owerflowin' intae tha burn unner the brig. Ah'l bide a whil in tha shade afore gaein' doon tha raa'
'It wud founder ye tha dae, ye'll hae tae bumfle up agin' tha caul
'Ye' re too faun a whettin' yer thrapple, ya clunther ye!'
'Ah dinnae ken sic a mon as yon critter; an thon weefla a he's wi a' tha ferntickles, thas a' traipsin' efter him, hes a peuchle'
'Tha we'an's wil vexed wi greetin an' girnin; pit him in oor ain chammer forenenst tha dour'
'Awa ye bletherskite an houl yer wheest ; Ah cannae abide a' yer santerin' forebye' THE ULSTER NATIONALITY
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
