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Old 02-10-2018, 10:19 PM
 
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What do you think of this?


Quote:
The results indicate that Cheddar Man had blue eyes, dark coloured curly hair and 'dark to black' skin pigmentation. Previously, many had assumed that he had reduced skin pigmentation.

The discovery suggests that the lighter pigmentation now considered to be a defining feature of northern Europe is a far more recent phenomenon.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0207202447.htm
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
What do you think of this?
I think it is generally believed that the natural pigmentation of the entire human race was dark at one time. White skin was favored by natural selection in places where (1) it was dark much of the year, and (2) fish, with it's surplus of vitamin D, was not widely consumed.

The tissue under the skin of all humans is white, as is the skin under primates. What we call "white" skin is really "thin" skin exposing the underlying layers. The general trade off is that it aids in producing Vitamin D from limited sunlight, while killing a larger percentage of the population from skin cancer at a more advanced age. But natural selection doesn't care about old people.

Siberia is a land without sunlight where people are still dark, largely because they found other sources of Vitamin D in their fish based diet.

The article that was highlighted in the OP makes it clear that the remarkable theory is not that there was a transition from dark to light skin, but that it may have occurred less than 10,000 years ago. Most theories assume that white people become predominant in northern Europe longer than 10,000 years ago.

Last edited by PacoMartin; 02-10-2018 at 11:18 PM..
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:04 AM
 
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It's probably speculative how dark the person actually was or how representative he was. Even till this day British people vary in complexion, along with eye and hair color. The renditions of the European hunter-gather with blue eyes and dark skin isn't much darker than some of them today. But those phenotypes and lighter, thinner skin is just scratching the surface of differences that make them racially white. Another thing to consider is the hunter-gathers had been in Europe and Britain at least 30,000 before the skeleton remains so if they weren't light complexioned by then it seems unlikely they would become so in a few thousand years the agriculture argument not withstanding.
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:41 AM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Human characteristics that are often associated with race and ethnicity, like skin pigmentation, are very recent developments in archeological time.
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Old 02-11-2018, 07:41 AM
 
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The first human inhabitants in England, or human linked we should say (probably the link between later homo sapiens and Neanderthals) were Home Antecessor about a million years ago. Skin pigmentation is really irrelevant as it's just a process of natural selection to regulate ultraviolet radiation on the skin. Motion why are you so focused on this issue?
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Old 02-11-2018, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
The first human inhabitants in England, or human linked we should say (probably the link between later homo sapiens and Neanderthals) were Home Antecessor about a million years ago. Skin pigmentation is really irrelevant as it's just a process of natural selection to regulate ultraviolet radiation on the skin. Motion why are you so focused on this issue?
Because it's interesting from a scientific standpoint, and because the "cheddar man" paper is very new.
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:45 PM
 
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I don’t think the genetic testing of a single man represents an entire population. People migrated for various reasons. Vikings were as white and fair as anyone yet they circumnavigated most of the globe before written history. Finding a 2000 year old Viking corpse in Egypt would prove nothing other than migration.
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWFL_Native View Post
I donít think the genetic testing of a single man represents an entire population.
Well that is certainly true, but in the case of Britain it may have seperated from the continent 100,000 years ago. So a skeleton from 10,000 years ago is probably representative.

Keep in mind that Cheddar Man was excavated in 1903, and only recently has speculation become widespread that his skin was dark.
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
What do you think of this?
I think it's generally incorrect.

Welsh people could lay claim to be the most ancient Britons, according to scientists who have drawn up a genetic map of the British Isles. Research suggests the Welsh are genetically distinct from the rest of mainland Britain.

Professor Peter Donnelly, of Oxford University, said the Welsh carry DNA which could be traced back to the last Ice Age, 10,000 years ago.

Welsh people could be most ancient in UK, DNA suggests - BBC News

And, of course, there's Tacitus, writing Agricola in 98 CE:

Who were the original inhabitants of Britain, whether they were indigenous or foreign, is, as usual among barbarians, little known. Their physical characteristics are various and from these conclusions may be drawn. The red hair and large limbs of the inhabitants of Caledonia point clearly to a German origin. The dark complexion of the Silures, their usually curly hair, and the fact that Spain is the opposite shore to them, are an evidence that Iberians of a former date crossed over and occupied these parts.

And Jordanes writing Gaetica about 550 CE or so:

The Silures have swarthy features and are usually born with curly black hair, but the inhabitants of Caledonia have reddish hair and large loose-jointed bodies. They are like the Gauls or the Spaniards, according as they are opposite either nation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
The article that was highlighted in the OP makes it clear that the remarkable theory is not that there was a transition from dark to light skin, but that it may have occurred less than 10,000 years ago.
That would be mathematically impossible.
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Old 02-12-2018, 04:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
Well that is certainly true, but in the case of Britain it may have seperated from the continent 100,000 years ago. So a skeleton from 10,000 years ago is probably representative.

Keep in mind that Cheddar Man was excavated in 1903, and only recently has speculation become widespread that his skin was dark.
It's believed that there was a land bridge off and on till about 5800 BC and there is genetic evidence that there were some arrivals after that. But it's possible this skeleton is representative of the first European hunter gatherers. But they had been in Europe for at least 30,000 years by that point and outside of Africa per OoA theory another 30,000 to 100,000 years. How dark their skin was is speculative and of not much importance. Most of the revised darker skin renditions of the European hunter gathers look like a blue eyed, European with skin not much darker than it can currently range.
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