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Old 03-25-2018, 08:05 AM
Status: "Trump Resistance - The (establishment) Empire Strikes Back" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
17,531 posts, read 6,848,578 times
Reputation: 13493

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Francois View Post
Okay, my bad, I realise that Johnson was President from 1963 until 1969, and that REAGAN was President from 1981 until 1989, I’ll go stand in the corner.
A weak excuse I know and accept, but I’m (hopefully) at the culmination of a kind of 48 hour ‘flu like bug, and the constant coughing, and attempts to suppress same, have left me with painful ribs, and made sleep difficult.
So I cracked open a bottle of Armagnac, fired up the iPad, and attempted to drink myself to sleep.
In the process of doing this I misspelled Reagan and typed Regan, but gimme a break, our clocks went forward this a.m., and if you check the time of my errant post, it was 4.00 a.m. here, and I must have been just getting into drowsy mode.
I got to sleep, but the booze plan backfired, I woke up with a raging thirst, and it’s still only 7.25 a.m. here.
I was kidding. It was a play on being in the "History" part of C-D. Of course I knew who you were talking about. And I found their names confusing myself.

#MeToo would have had a field day with LBJ. With Reagan (or for that matter Regan) not so much.
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:07 AM
Status: "Trump Resistance - The (establishment) Empire Strikes Back" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
17,531 posts, read 6,848,578 times
Reputation: 13493
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts View Post
LBJ was looooong before my time. Same for millions of others. He was president over 50 years ago. There have been 45 presidents. How much do people really talk about any of them except the last few? When was the last time you heard someone say something about Millard Fillmore?
People still talk about Kennedy and his romps with females other than his wife, much as they talk about Ed Kennedy's swim in the channel on a hot night in July 1969.
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Old 03-25-2018, 12:32 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
7,486 posts, read 4,092,318 times
Reputation: 14176
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
People still talk about Kennedy and his romps with females other than his wife, much as they talk about Ed Kennedy's swim in the channel on a hot night in July 1969.
I haven't heard anyone bring this up recently except on C-D. It all depends on what sort of bubble you live in. LBJ has his fans and detractors as would any past president. There are still people around who had a close relationship with LBJ even though his tenure ended in 1969. The issues and achievements by LBJ were somewhat eclipsed in the public awareness by Nixon's problems and resignation. Sometimes president's are dismissed and then rehabilitated and come back into the public awareness. TR keeps bouncing back every few years. Trump idolizes Jackson so he gets another 15 minutes of fame. I suppose that even James Buchanan and Martin Van Buren have their own tiny smoldering fan bases just waiting for their triumphant return to public awareness.
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Old 03-25-2018, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
12,304 posts, read 11,081,036 times
Reputation: 20576
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
People still talk about Kennedy and his romps with females other than his wife, much as they talk about Ed Kennedy's swim in the channel on a hot night in July 1969.
Can't say I've had any of those conversations. No one my age talks about Ted Kennedy's car accident. Happened years before I was born.
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Old 03-25-2018, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,547 posts, read 17,935,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Anyone who had any doubts about Nixon need only review Watergate. The President literally sat in the oval office plotting how to bribe members of his administration to lie to a federal grand jury investigating the Watergate burglary. Payments of hush money were actually made at Nixon's direction with this intent. Other Presidents may have violated laws. What made Watergate unique was this President did so blatantly and with full knowledge he was breaking the law.



Interesting you would say this. Right after Johnson succeeded in getting the Civil Rights Act of 1964 enacted he told people all around him that he thought the democrats had lost the South as a voting bloc for at least a generation. He was more concerned with the votes he lost than any he might be getting. In getting these laws passed, LBJ behaved more like a statesman than a politician. Since he never ran for reelection he never personally benefited if any new votes resulted from the passage of this legislation.

*My replies in bold.
Re, Nixon.

Am I the only person getting Watergate flashbacks every time our 'president' backs further into the woodwork where nobody can tell him its not going to work to fire everyone who don't agree with him already and trying to run the government by yourself isn't good for anyone.

Re the part not quoted about how Viet Nam was a war fated not to be 'won', given the circumstances....

I remember somewhere after others started to run for president and did not support the war, the quesiton of how to end that support was raised. Johnson saw no way they could. Largely, what others planned was to train the South better and pull our own out. It was claimed to be a bad idea as it sounded too close to the ardent peace demonstrators, and it sounded to some like being cowardly.

Then as we changed policy to train and turn over their war to the South Vietnamese, and it had already proven it was not going to succeed, not anyone, not the pro war people who claimed it would be cowardly before, or the anti war people who saw no justification for our nation losing so many of its youth for an unwinable war, had the courage, or maybe the vision, to say that in the end that origional idea of just... leaving .... was the ultimate outcome.

When I was in high school, in 68, one of my best friends, part of our little group of not belongers was a very nice young teen who's parents had paid their way out of Viet Nam and gotten sancuary here. She was just learning English and fit perfectly in our little bubble. She seldom talked a lot, but once said her father had sold everything they had to pay for a way out, but they knew if they waited it might be too late. Her father would have died. They were currently 'poor' but he had the skills for a good job, and they did well. But actually knowing someone from there, thinking of how she and her brothers might have winded up dead there, gave it a reality it hadn't had before.

But it was still also a civil war, and these do not come out well. And it created its own in our nation. Someday all those who lived then and grew up then will be gone and it can be studied without 'sides' and old but remembered feelings. Only then can we talk about Vietnam and what it did to all the sides with a true historical distance.

But the multipart documentary on PBS with the emotion still there, but from a distance should be watched by all who remember, and with their kids too, so they might understand a little about their parent's genereation's experience and why such wars should be avoided, for in the end, nobody wins.
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Old 03-25-2018, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,547 posts, read 17,935,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post

Here we agree. The blacks were long entitled to a place at the table. Johnson did the right thing.
I remember at the time someone saying that ONLY someone Southern could recognize and enforce the new world they were making. Someone from a northern state where the situation was not so deeply historical would not be read the same way. Johnson's not only solid but honest belief in civil rights changed the image from an act of force to an act of honesty. And his passion was as real for civil rights as his enthusism for war in Viet Nam was. But it was real.

Where his belief in Viet Nam ultimately cost him much, that he broke with his heritage to rise up and honestly support civil rights and equal status as citizens should not be forgotten. Johnson established that bills and laws would be enforced. Once this began, change could happen.

The truth is that many of our 'leaders' are hardly perfect and some of their acts were based on less than ideal ideas, but when the results are good, they have still succeeded in something positive. Johnson's support for civil rights is part of the complexity which makes all of us human.
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Old 03-25-2018, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Southwest
1,607 posts, read 1,112,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperL View Post
...Minivan Driver pretty much has LBJ pegged for the slimeball he was. He was Texas famous for having 120% of the voters in South Texas counties vote for him. Some of those voters had been dead over 100 years too but still managed to get to the polls. In my opinion, he is one president that needs to be forgotten. There are things I got to hear that should never have been spoken. If you think Gotti was a problem child, LBJ gave him lessons.

People dying after JFK's assassination under suspicious circumstances?


Things you heard would be interesting to read about.



Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Johnson's decision to involve this country in Vietnam was a mistake. However, he was essentially forced into doing so by the huge forces in America that were rabidly anti-communist. I submit most presidents would have made the same choice.

All in all, except for Vietnam, Johnson's actions served this country well.

If some presidents would not have involved us in Vietnam beyond "advisors", one would be JFK.


If he was involved in JFK's demise, that needs to be included with Vietnam. If he was involved, its like the guv or part of it telling the public: We don't like who you voted for, we're taking him out.




Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
...His blundering and mendacity in Vietnam created distrust for government that remains to this day. His War on Poverty was an ill-considered hodgepodge of programs that made no appreciable dent in poverty, instead leading the mushrooming of the entitlement state...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
LBJ's War on Poverty was a bust. While the poverty rate dropped from somewhere in the mid-20% range in 1959 to 15% by 1965, the poverty rate never dropped more than a percentage point or two after that, despite a massive increase in the size of government. So while you list a large number of programs that LBJ began, the effectiveness of those programs in the erasure of poverty is dubious at best.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ed_States..PNG

The post WWII economic boom ended in the mid-60s. Therefore, it is possible the poverty rate would be higher if it were not for LBJ's war on poverty.
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Old 03-25-2018, 04:35 PM
 
9,532 posts, read 9,577,012 times
Reputation: 30106
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge5 View Post
People dying after JFK's assassination under suspicious circumstances?


Things you heard would be interesting to read about.






If some presidents would not have involved us in Vietnam beyond "advisors", one would be JFK.


If he was involved in JFK's demise, that needs to be included with Vietnam. If he was involved, its like the guv or part of it telling the public: We don't like who you voted for, we're taking him out.










The post WWII economic boom ended in the mid-60s. Therefore, it is possible the poverty rate would be higher if it were not for LBJ's war on poverty.

Show me some evidence that he was and we can have that conversation. That evidence doesn't exist because he wasn't.
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:58 PM
 
511 posts, read 241,327 times
Reputation: 619
I know LBJ was a "good" swearer. The LBJ museum said he didn't run for a second term as he couldn't please both sides that wanted a bigger war or a smaller war. Sounds like a lie to me as it did not include those who wanted no war. I remember reading Vietnam war protesters
were chanting "Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today?"
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:10 PM
Status: "“Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Houston, texas
15,147 posts, read 11,071,483 times
Reputation: 11376
Yet given today’s endemic antigovernment sentiment and LBJ’s near-invisibility for most of the Fox News era, it’s remarkable that his story still has legs. Reagan’s principal legacy was an inflexible antigovernment theology. LBJ bequeathed us something more tangible in its possibilities: an increasingly diverse nation that may yet discover his greatness.
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