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Old 01-11-2019, 09:13 AM
 
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Everyone should look Operation Mongoose under JFK. Even after the failed invasion of the Bay of Pigs, JFK had plans to invade and overthrow the government of Cuba.



a March 1962 CIA Memorandum sought a brief, but precise description of pretexts which the Joint Chiefs of Staff considered would provide justification for American military intervention in Cuba. The formerly classified memorandum depicts the way in which the CIA and the Joint Chiefs of Staff sought a reason to invade the island of Cuba that would be acceptable to the American people. The document states, "such a plan would enable a logical build-up of incidents to be combined with other seemingly unrelated events to camouflage the ultimate objective and create the necessary impression of Cuban rashness and irresponsibility on a large scale, directed at other countries as well as the United States." It proceeds to state, "The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere."




and then JFK in public acts "shocked" that the Soviets puts missiles in Cuba, the same missiles he put in Turkey, Italy and Japan before pointing at the USSR and China. Then he orders the blockade which is an Act of War.....that is how close JFK got us into War then in secret he backed down when Nikita called his bluff.



but our historians paint a different picture. That's why I take with a grain of salt what historians say.
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Old 01-11-2019, 07:22 PM
 
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JFK within 2 years in office invades Cuba (ilegal invasion) and then secretly has plans to overthrow Castro after the failed invasion and puts nuclear missiles in Turkey, Italy and Japan pointing at China and the Soviet Union. The same missiles the Soviets put in Cuba later.


The Bay of Pigs invasion was April 1961 with Kennedy in office 3 months...under Eisenhower vice-president Nixon of all people was nominally in charge of CIA stuff..


Kennedy however did meet with Cubans working with the invasion plot while he was a senator (which nixon was unaware of)...Kennedy used that information to his advantage during the debates


Kennedy has inside contacts that led him to challenge Nixon on the missile and bomber "gap" during debate (Nixon sure couldn't say there was no gap..that's a secret lol)..It was known at the time by US that there was NO gap and we were leading the USSR...


with that information JFK ordered building 1,000 missiles (warheads?!?) the military wanted 3,000...so right there you can also see JFK was not some peacenik..unless you count only 1,000 and not 3,000 again Kennedy campaigned way to the right and it is only later-day historians who search and search as to what he would really do in a longer presidency

Last edited by elvis44102; 01-11-2019 at 07:33 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 06:54 PM
 
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Kennedy most certainly would've won. In '64 Barry Goldwater only won his home state of Arizona. (The biggest landslide in history until twenty years later when Reagan defeated Mondale). I believe Kennedy would've taken somewhere between 65-70% of the popular vote.
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Old Yesterday, 07:16 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
in '64?... by a landslide..
THIS^^^^. He was emblematic of his era. He demonstrated that he was not an extremist, nor was he in cahoots with the Roman Catholic Church. He was firm against Communism, which was the popular stance of the time.

Even my Protestant Republican father had a change of heart once he was in office. It would have been next to impossible to unseat JFK.

Hmm. Makes one think.
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Old Yesterday, 10:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by droc31 View Post
Kennedy most certainly would've won. In '64 Barry Goldwater only won his home state of Arizona. (The biggest landslide in history until twenty years later when Reagan defeated Mondale). I believe Kennedy would've taken somewhere between 65-70% of the popular vote.



based on what???? Goldwater lost by a landslide because the country was still in mourning over JFK's death and LBJ rode that wave. Do you know how close JFK won in 1960, not only in the popular vote but in the EC? you had like 7 states that JFK won by 2% or less.....in some states he won by less than 0.5%



You don't think Reagan getting shot and surviving didn't help him in 1984 re-election......imagine if he would have been killed, HW BUSH would have won by a landslide in 1984 by just running the the Reagan legacy and platform and use the sentiments of a nation mourning.


We did that in WW 2 after Pearl Harbor and after 9/11....we unite behind a President.
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Old Yesterday, 10:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
THIS^^^^. He was emblematic of his era. He demonstrated that he was not an extremist, nor was he in cahoots with the Roman Catholic Church. He was firm against Communism, which was the popular stance of the time.

Even my Protestant Republican father had a change of heart once he was in office. It would have been next to impossible to unseat JFK.

Hmm. Makes one think.
he was an extremist and a war hawk.....one thing is being against communism and another thing is being so reckless and and a war hawk to get us on a blink of WW 3 because he imposed American imperialism around the world.

He started and instigated the mess in the Cuban MIssile Crisis for being obsessed in invading Cuba and regime change and by ordering a blockade on Cuba which is a declaration of War for accusing the Soviets for putting the same missiles in Cuba JFK put in Italy, Turkey and Japan pointing at the Soviet Union and China 6 months earlier.

You think if JFK wasn't obsessed in invading Cuba and regime change the Soviets would have put missiles in Cuba with the blessing of the Cuban government? you think if JFK didn't put missiles in Italy, Turkey and Japan six months before the Soviets put missiles in Cuba we would have been close to a nuclear crisis.

Don't get me started in JFK actions in South Vietnam before the idiot died . He gave the green light to kill South Vietnam President Ngo Diem who was the glue that kept that country together and put puppet Generals that turned the country into chaos that it never recovered and one of the main reasons we lost the Vietnam war.


If liberals labeled W Bush a reckless and dangerous for his foreign policy in the M.E. then JFK takes the cake for his cowboy foreign policy.
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Old Yesterday, 10:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
based on what???? Goldwater lost by a landslide because the country was still in mourning over JFK's death and LBJ rode that wave. Do you know how close JFK won in 1960, not only in the popular vote but in the EC? you had like 7 states that JFK won by 2% or less.....in some states he won by less than 0.5%



You don't think Reagan getting shot and surviving didn't help him in 1984 re-election......imagine if he would have been killed, HW BUSH would have won by a landslide in 1984 by just running the the Reagan legacy and platform and use the sentiments of a nation mourning.


We did that in WW 2 after Pearl Harbor and after 9/11....we unite behind a President.
You're only focusing on one thing. Yes, its true that LBJ won partly because of the death of JFK. However, there is much more to it than that.

1. The economy was good and benefited the party in power;
2. People tended to like JFK because of the image he projected and his charismatic speaking style;
3. Goldwater was perceived as a right wing extremist when he ran for office and the perception was based on some realities. He had voted against all civil rights legislation. He would have wrecked social security through his scheme to make it voluntary. He opposed the nuclear test ban treaty.

I am not comfortable saying how wide JFK's reelection margin would have been. However, I am comfortable saying he would have been reelected.

Again, though, here we are on one of those "what if" threads.
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Old Today, 02:38 AM
 
9,712 posts, read 3,283,234 times
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Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
You're only focusing on one thing. Yes, its true that LBJ won partly because of the death of JFK. However, there is much more to it than that.

1. The economy was good and benefited the party in power;
2. People tended to like JFK because of the image he projected and his charismatic speaking style;
3. Goldwater was perceived as a right wing extremist when he ran for office and the perception was based on some realities. He had voted against all civil rights legislation. He would have wrecked social security through his scheme to make it voluntary. He opposed the nuclear test ban treaty.

I am not comfortable saying how wide JFK's reelection margin would have been. However, I am comfortable saying he would have been reelected.

Again, though, here we are on one of those "what if" threads.





you are focusing of JFK's image AFTER his death.......JFK before his death admitted to his aides that he would have a tough re-election. On taped recordings made in the White House just before his death, Kennedy told advisers he expected a tough re-election campaign. President Kennedy had introduced his historic Civil Rights Act in June 1963. It was stalled in Congress when Kennedy died.


The presumptive presidential nominee for the Republicans in late 1963 was Senator Barry Goldwater. He was friends with Kennedy and briefly dropped out of race after Kennedy’s death, only to re-enter it to oppose a man he disliked, Lyndon Johnson. Kennedy and Goldwater had reportedly agreed to debate, while Johnson had no interest in debating Goldwater. Since JFK and Goldwater were good friends, JFK wouldn't run a dirty negative campaign on his friend like LBJ did.


JFK was the favorite to win, he was a sitting President but not by a landslide like LBJ did in 1964.
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