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Old 12-04-2018, 07:48 AM
 
8,049 posts, read 3,197,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
FDR began an address to the Daughter of the American Revolution, "Fellow immigrants...".

Where we came from, when we got here are irrelevant as long as we adopt the founding principles of our country. Anyone can be an American.
That would have been an intriguing thing for him to have said, but sadly, he didn't say it.

(largely because he was, in fact, not addressing immigrants but rather, a population that had remained in a country for many, many generations).

The verbiage where that myth arose:

FDR (excerpt): “I thought of preaching on a text, but I shall not. I shall only give you the text and I shall not preach on it. I think I can afford to give you the text because it so happens, through no fault of my own, that I am descended from a number of people who came over in the Mayflower. More than that, every one of my ancestors on both sides—and when you go back four generations or five generations it means thirty-two or sixty-four of them—every single one of them, without exception, was in this land in 1776. And there was only one Tory among them.

The text is this: Remember, remember always that all Of us, and you and I especially, are descended from immigrants and revolutionists.”
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:54 AM
 
306 posts, read 74,177 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
I think maybe he's coming at this from the other direction and trying to get us to have a discussion that ultimately leads to the conclusion that we are a nation of immigrants and we must embrace the massive influx of Central and South American migration as a natural progression of historical population growth patterns. He's trying to lead us to a puddle of urine and get us to think it is water that we should drink.


Sorry, sorry, maybe I read a different history book...but weren't you (protestant squatters) the ones that migrated illegally to two-thirds of North America very recently?

There's a saying in Spanish that goes "mar..el último"...I guess that you would be considered as the M word.

Read history books. Real Americans are Amerindians, the rest were cannon fodder fleeing from starvation and annihilation- Plunderers that wrecked paradise according to 16th-century Italian pamphlet writers. and Bartolomé de las Casas.

No one is guilty, just happened that Feudal mercenaries and uncouth "heathens" met very isolated human groups with no iron and no horses, the same happened in Europe 3.000 years ago and there was a mass extinction. History.

Last edited by CHESTER MANIFOLD; 12-04-2018 at 08:15 AM..
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:06 PM
 
1,922 posts, read 808,043 times
Reputation: 1498
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
I really don’t see how there is an ethnic American type.
Ethnogenesis is a thing. There are multiple American ethnic groups that were formed here and are unique to this country. We have culture that was created in the United States.

Black Americans are an ethnic group from the United States. And there are several white american ethnic groups depending on how specific you want to be - Appalachian mountain people are a good example.
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, not Paris. #MAGA.
10,108 posts, read 5,616,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Ethnogenesis is a thing. There are multiple American ethnic groups that were formed here and are unique to this country. We have culture that was created in the United States.

Black Americans are an ethnic group from the United States. And there are several white american ethnic groups depending on how specific you want to be - Appalachian mountain people are a good example.
Very true.
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,197 posts, read 6,198,608 times
Reputation: 5850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Ethnic Americans identify with the United States. This is the country we are from. American ethnic groups were created in the United States. Our culture is a product of 400 years of our experience in this nation. It's not from some other country.

People of recent immigrant origin identify with foreign countries. Italian-Americans, for example, call themselves Italian and see their culture as something that was imported from Italy.

There's a huge difference.
Nonsense. You don't get to define what "American-ness" is. I categorically reject your ethnocentric attempt to "otherize" and divide us. As an Asian American, I am sick and tired of people with your narrow minded, exclusionary views to paint us as "perpentual foreigners".

Last edited by silverkris; 12-05-2018 at 04:43 PM..
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:57 PM
 
311 posts, read 113,575 times
Reputation: 1193
Before I started doing genealogy in the last couple years I had no idea when my ancestors arrived in the US, just knew they was Irish-English-German-French. DNA test says 99% Northern European. Genealogy so far shows 11 generations in US, pre-Revolutionary, but probably more, haven't found my boat people yet except for the Irish, latecomers. I do not feel any more charged up as an American than before. Not REALLY (emphasis per thread title) any more American than those who became an American yesterday.

I agree with posters who state that many Africans were here as slaves/citizens before many other European ethnicities arrived (i.e.Irish and many others).

Native Americans will always beat anyone else's claim to who is really American. They were here waaay first.
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:54 PM
Status: "POTUS Trump promises - not hot air" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: New York Area
14,215 posts, read 5,624,259 times
Reputation: 11319
Quote:
Originally Posted by john620 View Post
America is not a real country because it has no ethnic group tied to it. Country= a genetic related group of people, borders, language and common culture. America was mostly empty and colonized by the British and Dutch and had a large German contingent (even the Indians what some call “native Americans” migrated over the Bering straight although that is just a theory). Later Irish and Italians migrated in large numbers the late 19th and early 20th century.
I don't know where you get your idea of "country" or nation from. My working definition is control over defined land, within defined borders, and the right to include or exclude newcomers. By control I mean ability to prevent renegades from mounting incursions against other lands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john620 View Post
For practical purposes the Dutch, British and Germans are called “Americans” because they look pretty similar and have the longest ties to the original settlers. Italians, Irish, blacks, Indians, Asians and etc. tend to be qualified as Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, African-Americans, Asian-Americans for reasons that are obvious.

The concept of being “American” by just living on the land, being born on the land or being a citizen determined by a government that half of the people alternatively oppose its leadership and probably 90 percent oppose in general, is ridiculous. We are not even a United States. 40 states would rather not have the other 10. If my neighbor looks nothing like me he is not my neighbor, definitely not my countryman.

There are so many problems in America today because a lot of states are the size of European countries and there are too many different races, ethnic groups within race, religions, political ideologies, different ways of life, different cultures, etc. that all have diverging interests, agendas and imperatives.
Do I detect a certain element of dislike of certain ethnic groups here, as I pick up in other posts?
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:10 PM
Status: "POTUS Trump promises - not hot air" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: New York Area
14,215 posts, read 5,624,259 times
Reputation: 11319
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffleiron1968 View Post
The space doesn't allow for the full title I wanted. But essentially do you (your forefathers) have had to have played a role in the nations key formative events. I placed 1865 as the cut off as the CW is the definitive event in US history. I mean to truly be from the US does the likes of Lexington and Concord have to mean something to you?

Essentially, unless you have connections to such epic events are you not less American than those who shaped the nation. It follows that 'real Americans' (not hyphened) are inevitably rooted in Western Europe and the AA population.

Just a thought exercise. The US is becoming too far detatched from what made it 'America'.
I would consider myself an American. My ancestors came on my mother's side from modern Poland and Ukraine (then Czarist Russia) and my father's side from what is now the Slovak-Hungarian border, though they considered themselves ethnically Hungarian. Why do I consider myself American? All of my ancestors came and never looked back. My father enlisted in the Navy for WW II and served briefly in that war and then Korea. They did not send money back to their home country. They came legally, three of the grandparents/parents of them by way of Ellis Island, the paternal great-grandparents by way of the railroad connected Montreal to New York City.

As far as what sent them to the United States, Fiddler on the Roof is a great piece of historical fiction that depicted the real violence and persecution that marked the life of European Jews. People were regularly attacked by mobs while police and the military at best looked on and at worst cheered the bloodshed on or joined in the "fun." They promptly learned English, and sent their descendants to college and into professions, if not themselves. These people saluted the flag, and loved their adopted country. Their ancestors, including me, are red, white and blue Americans.
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:47 PM
 
1,922 posts, read 808,043 times
Reputation: 1498
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkletwinkle22 View Post
Native Americans will always beat anyone else's claim to who is really American. They were here waaay first.
No. They are indigenous to the continent before it was America - before there was such a thing as America. This nation was founded in 1776.*All ethnic groups who were here before then are the natives of this nation. White and black Americans are also natives of this country.
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Old 01-24-2019, 05:36 PM
Status: "POTUS Trump promises - not hot air" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: New York Area
14,215 posts, read 5,624,259 times
Reputation: 11319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
No. They are indigenous to the continent before it was America - before there was such a thing as America. This nation was founded in 1776.*All ethnic groups who were here before then are the natives of this nation. White and black Americans are also natives of this country.
I'm confused. Are post-1776 people natives as well, if white, black or Asian?
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