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Old Today, 02:07 PM
 
1,853 posts, read 752,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffleiron1968 View Post
The space doesn't allow for the full title I wanted. But essentially do you (your forefathers) have had to have played a role in the nations key formative events. I placed 1865 as the cut off as the CW is the definitive event in US history. I mean to truly be from the US does the likes of Lexington and Concord have to mean something to you?

Essentially, unless you have connections to such epic events are you not less American than those who shaped the nation. It follows that 'real Americans' (not hyphened) are inevitably rooted in Western Europe and the AA population.

Just a thought exercise. The US is becoming too far detatched from what made it 'America'.

Everyone born and raised here is an American citizen. But I'd argue that "Americans" in an ethnic sense are the people with roots in the United States from before the revolution. White Americans and Black Americans are thus ethnic groups that are from this nation and have culture that was created here.

Newer Americans who still identify with foreign nations are different.
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Old Today, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
37,259 posts, read 17,553,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffleiron1968 View Post
That was not the Q. I am not a hater or a "nationalist" - I find that deeply offensive. This was about a sense of belonging. Trying to trace what "American" means in a deeper sense.
Why then do you not provide us with a direct, unambiguous presentation of your opinions on the subject? You seem to be tip-toeing around. What does "American mean" in a "deeper sense?" That is awfully vague.

And if you are offended by someone taking you for a nationalist, why didn't you make yourself more clear in the first place?

And if you aren't a nationalist, what then are we to make of your writing:
Quote:
unless you have connections to such epic events are you not less American than those who shaped the nation
What is a "lesser" American in your mind?
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Old Today, 02:11 PM
 
1,853 posts, read 752,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgardener View Post
Immigrants made America, in case you've forgotten.


I know a woman who just became an American citizen a few months ago. Some of my ancestors came to the US in the 1700s. She and I are both 100% American citizens, no difference between us at all.
There is an ethnic difference between Americans and people of recent immigrant origin.

We have hundreds of years of culture here in the United States that they don't know anything about. I go through this all the time in NYC where everybody is the child of immigrants and speaks like they are from somewhere else. They don't even think that this is a country that people can be from.
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Old Today, 02:17 PM
 
1,853 posts, read 752,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
What is a "lesser" American in your mind?
"Lesser" is a bad word.

The point being made is that people of recent immigrant origin who have no roots in the United States are different than ethnic Americans - folks that have ancestry in the United States back to colonial times.

We are the natives because we have been in this country since it was founded. New immigrants are culturally different.
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Old Today, 02:21 PM
 
Location: In the outlet by the lightswitch
1,534 posts, read 912,156 times
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My father's side of the family dates back to Colonial Times. I have relatives who fought in the Revolution. My mother's side came over to the US in the early 20th Century. Does that make me half a real American?



Interestingly, by the definition in the OP, the current President of the US isn't a real American since his relatives all immigrated after the Civil War.



Of course, these are just my examples to point out how absurd it is to count someone as a "real American" based on their family history.
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Old Today, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
6,359 posts, read 3,538,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Everyone born and raised here is an American citizen. But I'd argue that "Americans" in an ethnic sense are the people with roots in the United States from before the revolution.
Why would a white person born in the US whose ancestors came over in 1880 feel any differently about the country than a white person born in the US whose ancestors came over in 1760? Both are going to feel equally American (as indeed they are.) The whole idea is silly.
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Old Today, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
37,259 posts, read 17,553,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
"Lesser" is a bad word.

The point being made is that people of recent immigrant origin who have no roots in the United States are different than ethnic Americans - folks that have ancestry in the United States back to colonial times.

We are the natives because we have been in this country since it was founded. New immigrants are culturally different.
One says "lesser", you say "different", neither of you has explained what those terms are supposed to mean.
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Old Today, 02:29 PM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
4,141 posts, read 3,425,022 times
Reputation: 8741
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffleiron1968 View Post
The space doesn't allow for the full title I wanted. But essentially do you (your forefathers) have had to have played a role in the nations key formative events. I placed 1865 as the cut off as the CW is the definitive event in US history. I mean to truly be from the US does the likes of Lexington and Concord have to mean something to you?

Essentially, unless you have connections to such epic events are you not less American than those who shaped the nation. It follows that 'real Americans' (not hyphened) are inevitably rooted in Western Europe and the AA population.

Just a thought exercise. The US is becoming too far detatched from what made it 'America'.
To REALLY be American do your roots in the land have to go back to before 1865?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Anyone who was either born here or who has sworn the oath of citizenship is a REAL American.
This...

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffleiron1968 View Post
A people united neither by heritage or shared experience have very weak bonds. No?
No. One's "united heritage" eventually filters down to the children born here of the immigrants who come here. If that were the case then the children of America's original immigrants before 1865, 1600's, 1700's then how did they become REALLY AMERICAN? We all have a "shared experience" of what it means to be American.

As oldgardener pointed out my ancestors have been here since the late 1600's and fought in all of the early and formative wars of America. So? I know immigrant families whose sons and daughters have served/are serving in recent and current conflicts overseas wherever needed.

As long as this is not a P&OC issue. Immigrants made America and guess what, the immigrants are still "making America", we ARE the proverbial melting pot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffleiron1968 View Post
That was not the Q. I am not a hater or a "nationalist" - I find that deeply offensive. This was about a sense of belonging. Trying to trace what "American" means in a deeper sense.
Maybe take a view on...

What it means to be an American


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAAKZWKVNTg
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Old Today, 02:41 PM
 
1,853 posts, read 752,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Why would a white person born in the US whose ancestors came over in 1880 feel any differently about the country than a white person born in the US whose ancestors came over in 1760? Both are going to feel equally American (as indeed they are.) The whole idea is silly.
Ethnic Americans identify with the United States. This is the country we are from. American ethnic groups were created in the United States. Our culture is a product of 400 years of our experience in this nation. It's not from some other country.

People of recent immigrant origin identify with foreign countries. Italian-Americans, for example, call themselves Italian and see their culture as something that was imported from Italy.

There's a huge difference.
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Old Today, 02:43 PM
 
4,094 posts, read 1,657,542 times
Reputation: 12954
You are an American the minute you are sworn in as a citizen.



My next door neighbor for the past ten years is a native Indian. When he and his wife became citizens, he would come over all the time to my house and ask questions about the Constitution, et al.



When they were sworn in, my wife and I went to the ceremony. There are things on which we do not agree, but he is a citizen just like I am.
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