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Old Today, 02:50 PM
 
1,855 posts, read 752,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
You are an American the minute you are sworn in as a citizen.
We're not talking about the legal rights of citizenship. That's not being debated.

This is a socio-cultural conversation. American ethnic groups have culture and heritage that's from THIS NATION and are distinct from people who just came recently. People who immigrated here in the 20th century have nothing to do with us, and still speak as if they were from somewhere else.

All I'm saying is that we are different.
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Old Today, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
37,259 posts, read 17,553,612 times
Reputation: 16985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post

All I'm saying is that we are different.
We know. What you aren't saying is what the difference is and whether it is good or bad.
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Old Today, 02:58 PM
 
1,855 posts, read 752,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
What you aren't saying is what the difference is
Heritage. Culture.

Quote:
and whether it is good or bad.
Nothing to do with good or bad. An Italian-American's culture is from Italy.

My culture is from the United States and it's older than the nation Italy itself. Before Italy was even thought about all of my ancestors were in the United States.
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Old Today, 03:09 PM
 
Location: San Jose
1,568 posts, read 462,197 times
Reputation: 1612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Heritage. Culture.



Nothing to do with good or bad. An Italian-American's culture is from Italy.

My culture is from the United States and it's older than the nation Italy itself. Before Italy was even thought about all of my ancestors were in the United States.
Italian culture is much older then the nation of Italy and is much older then American culture. By global standards American culture is practically brand new.
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Old Today, 03:11 PM
 
Location: San Jose
1,568 posts, read 462,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Heritage. Culture.
I find those with little culture and heritage spend the most time worrying about culture and heritage.
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Old Today, 03:11 PM
 
310 posts, read 151,302 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Everyone born and raised here is an American citizen. But I'd argue that "Americans" in an ethnic sense are the people with roots in the United States from before the revolution. White Americans and Black Americans are thus ethnic groups that are from this nation and have culture that was created here.

Newer Americans who still identify with foreign nations are different.
This is all I was saying. I used the term "hyphenated American" to encompass it. In response, some called me a racist (check my posting history - I am a liberal and a Democrat), others implied I root for Trump (hate him) or a host of other snide insults.

There are people for whom 1776 means something on a personal (or ancestral) level (I put the cut off at 1865 to allow for those who took part in *the* culturally and civically defining event) and those for whom it is a page of a history book. Everyone who takes the oath is a citizen, but as Tritone stated many regard themselves as something else resident in America. That is not the same identity construct as those white and African Americans who made the nation.
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Old Today, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
37,259 posts, read 17,553,612 times
Reputation: 16985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Heritage. Culture.



Nothing to do with good or bad. An Italian-American's culture is from Italy.

.
Heritage? Culture? So what? What is your point? And when do people stop being "Italian-Americans" and start just being Americans? Which Americans do you think need to be referenced with a hyphen and which do not?
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Old Today, 03:15 PM
 
Location: San Jose
1,568 posts, read 462,197 times
Reputation: 1612
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffleiron1968 View Post
This is all I was saying. I used the term "hyphenated American" to encompass it. In response, some called me a racist (check my posting history - I am a liberal and a Democrat), others implied I root for Trump (hate him) or a host of other snide insults.

There are people for whom 1776 means something on a personal (or ancestral) level (I put the cut off at 1865 to allow for those who took part in *the* culturally and civically defining event) and those for whom it is a page of a history book. Everyone who takes the oath is a citizen, but as Tritone stated many regard themselves as something else resident in America. That is not the same identity construct as those white and African Americans who made the nation.
Why not take it a step further and just say that Native Americans are the only real true Americans since they have been here since time immemorial. If your ancestors have been here for 10,000 years, 200 years means nothing.
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Old Today, 03:17 PM
 
310 posts, read 151,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Why not take it a step further and just say that Native Americans are the only real true Americans since they have been here since time immemorial. If your ancestors have been here for 10,000 years, 200 years means nothing.
The indigenous people of course have greater claim to the land than anyone. I was referring to "American" in terms of the political entity of the United States and the events that shaped it.
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Old Today, 03:18 PM
 
1,855 posts, read 752,232 times
Reputation: 1437
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Italian culture is much older then the nation of Italy and is much older then American culture.
What is today called "Italy" was a bunch of different nation-states each with it's own culture.

My family history just in the State of Texas is older than the concept of Italy. We are a people that are from this nation, we have culture.

Quote:
By global standards American culture is practically brand new.
The United States is older than most countries, even some European countries (Germany is a much younger nation than U.S.A).
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