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Old 01-05-2019, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Nope, we are just now beginning to learn the story of human migration after Homo Sapiens left Africa around 200,000 years ago.
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Old 01-06-2019, 05:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Did the ancient greeks, celts, and germanics know about their indo european roots, and origins?

Did they know they came from the Caucasus region between Black Sea, and Caspian Seas?

The Greeks had colonies on the Black Sea Coast. But if they originally from that area, thn perhaps these are not colonies at all, but initial settlements from which they launched expeditions through the Dardanelles, and then in the Aegean.


Yes, they had certain air or brotherhoodm germanii, scandinavians gods were obviously the same greek good and basic words made their comunication easiers, back then indoeuropean languages were probably closer,

Another thing was communication with non-indoeuropeans, etruscans, basques, iberians.in which greek served as liaison,
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:33 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
I would say no, they did not know, multi generational memories rarely survive more than a few generations, with writing things can last much longer, but we are talking about prehistory. The few memories that do make it turn into myths where it gets very hard to distinguish fact from fiction. For instance some people suggest that the Greek Centaur is a depiction of early memories of natives who saw proto-Indo-Europeans riding on horse back and as they swept through Greece the natives who never saw such a thing before would describe them as half man half horse. And yes just because Greeks and other Eurasian ethnics groups are linguistically related, doesn't mean they are genetically related. It would be like saying that Peruvians originated from Spain because they speak Spanish.

Proto-Indo-European was spoken between 4500 BC to 2500 BC. In comparison classical Greece existed between 500 BC to 300 BC. That is a difference of 4200 to 2000 years. I don't even think the Greeks knew they were related to the Hittites.
This is a good point. On the one hand, pre-literate peoples had oral histories. But the oral histories only go back so far, before history morphs into myth.

Native American oral history only goes back to awhile before European arrival in the Americas, IOW a few hundred years. There's no recollection of the initial peopling of the continent, except in rare cases. There are reports of a tribal memory of migrating north, and encountering a wall of ice. No way to know if such a report is reliable. Navajo mythology holds that an important mythical figure arrived from an island in the ocean. This isn't oral history, like clan history, though; it's part of the spiritual tradition, meaning that it's become myth.. Otherwise, the "histories" of the Natives of the Southwest all say they emerged from a place underground, almost as if they were birthed from Mother Earth's womb..

So I would agree, that early peoples in Europe probably had no recollection of their 2000-years-earlier migration into Europe from the steppes, even though some of them retained their steppe culture to some extent. The early Balts/Prussians drank fermented mare's milk, as some Asiatic steppe peoples still do today, having learned it from earlier Indo-European peoples in the Altai and western Mongolia. They revered horses as sacred animals. Much of this early culture has converted into a sort of mythology through folklore; folk tales about horses with shamanic powers, and so forth. (Grega, did you ever read the tale about Sivka-Burka, for example?) Gimbutas discusses Balt folklore as reflecting an even earlier past, of pre-Indo-European Goddess worship. But this isn't oral history; it's myth/folklore that retains elements of ancient culture.
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:37 AM
 
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Romans divided tribes according to language, they clearly divided Celts, Germans and of course, Hellenistic with tribes that did not speak an indoeuropean language, We are talking about cultures, not dna and assorted crap. There were people having a clear indoeuropean origin whose language was not indoeuropean, and people that were pre-caucasic that spoke Celtic, for example.

I don't know about Slavs, as Romans never met them, Greeks did so they probably had some Greek rudiments.

Scandinavians, for example, were pre-caucasic and their language entirely indoeuropean.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:25 PM
 
Location: San Jose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Did the ancient greeks, celts, and germanics know about their indo european roots, and origins?
I don't think the Ancient Greeks, Celts and Germanic tribes had a common origin in the sense your implying. Yes, they all spoke an Indo-European language but many peoples throughout history have adopted the language of their neighbors when it was beneficial economically or politically. Genetically all three group tended to have different Haplogroups. Germanic Tribes I, Greeks E, J2 and the Celts R.
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Old Yesterday, 01:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHESTER MANIFOLD View Post
Romans divided tribes according to language, they clearly divided Celts, Germans and of course, Hellenistic with tribes that did not speak an indoeuropean language, We are talking about cultures, not dna and assorted crap. There were people having a clear indoeuropean origin whose language was not indoeuropean, and people that were pre-caucasic that spoke Celtic, for example.

I don't know about Slavs, as Romans never met them, Greeks did so they probably had some Greek rudiments.

Scandinavians, for example, were pre-caucasic and their language entirely indoeuropean.
I thought the Romans had a lot of Slavic slaves, and the word slave comes from the word slav which the romans called them, and so happened to be their slaves.
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Old Today, 02:11 AM
 
Location: Bronx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
I thought the Romans had a lot of Slavic slaves, and the word slave comes from the word slav which the romans called them, and so happened to be their slaves.
The Latin word for slave servant or servus. The Romans did not encounter the slavs. When Rome divided into two halfs. The eastern half of the Roman Empire encounters slavs in the Balkan Peninsula. Many Roman slave owners used to give pensions to slavs as they reached old age.
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Old Today, 04:57 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
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Many good points noted above. A couple additional eclectic points.


Too many of us, when we think of Great Migrations- like Out of Africa or Crossing the Bering Land Bridge- lock ourselves into an image of Americans in their organized wagon trains or ship loads of Europeans coming en mass to TheStates….. But Africans moving to people the rest of the world, or ancient Asians filling in the western hemisphere, was the caveman equivalent of urban sprawl-- as populations grew, they needed more hunting grounds, so they just expanded their territory a few miles at a time over the course of time....An extra 10miles/yr x 1000 yrs is an extra 10,000 miles of territory-- half way 'round the globe.


Most oral traditions only go back a few generations (how far can you trace your family, based simply on stories your grandpa told you?) And, of course, good story tellers embellish the tales lavishly-- if they didn't nobody would listen. A story about the heroics of Odysseus or Aeneas would be a box office winner; one about average Joe the Plumber would probably flop.


As has been mentioned above, the base Indo-European language was deduced by linguists in the 19th century based on certain similarities among existing languages. Eg- many languages use -m & -s as the endings for singular & plural accusative cases. We even still see that in English in the words "them" & "those."...and the word "barbarian" comes from the Latin & Greek before it because they thought foreigners sounded like " bar-bar" when they spoke.


"Slave" does come from Medieval Latin "sclavus"- derived from Slav. The Danube River was the Limes Germanicus- the German Boundary- in classical times-- ie- no real contact with Slavs.


ps/ A point of timely application- Hadrian didn't build his wall to keep the Scotts out. He built it to keep those @#$% Bagpipes out!
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