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Old 12-21-2018, 09:58 AM
 
11,475 posts, read 17,017,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Not a crime simply because if ze Germans hadn't bombed / flattened Coventry (among others) then this wouldn't have happened, simples!
I happen to agree, but it is a segment of your fellow citizens that have always had a problem with Dreseden and Bomber Harris.

 
Old 12-21-2018, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
6,583 posts, read 3,666,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Interestingly, there was a bunch of people who welcomed the Japanese as allies in throwing off colonial rule.

Most quickly realized that they were exchanging one set of rulers for a new and much worse one....
I've often wondered how history would have played out if The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere had actually lived up to its lofty name. What if the Japanese had treated the people in the lands they conquered far better than the occupying Western powers had? At the very least, it would have made the various western colonial powers real motives for "liberating'"their colonies from a Japanese takeover painfully obvious to everyone.

But of course the Japanese weren't actually interested in co-prosperity, or in ending colonialism. They just wanted to change who was doing the colonizing. And that turned out to be a fatal miscalculation for them.
 
Old 12-21-2018, 11:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
The British whose backs were against the wall didn't necessarily have the privilege to worry about Asia.
Beg to differ. The XIVth Army chased the Imperial Japanese Army out of Burma, for one thing. The biggest set-piece battles against the Japanese were fought in Burma.



Quote:
No one was prepared for the massive amount of Soviet incompetence and had grossly under-estimated the amount of Soviet troops that would die from stupid reasons thanks to Stalin like malnutrition and freezing to death. The Soviet answer to the Blitzkrieg was to retreat into the Forest where a Blitzkrieg was logistically impossible.
That may have been true in 1941. But the Red Army took its harsh lesson and learned fast. The Red Army wrested the initiative from the Wehrmacht sometimes in late 1942, and very ably ran campaigns that played Russian strengths against German weaknesses.

Quote:
Soviet equipment as can be expected is typically outdated broke down leaving many soldiers stranded without rations and of course they were disorganized rag tag mess.
Again, that sort of statement has to be qualified by the time you're discussing. The Russians fielded possibly the most effective tanks (T-34, particularly the 85 mm version) and the most effective ground attack aircraft of the war. Their rocket launchers were considered terrifyingly effective. Sure, they were unrefined and had a short life expectancy, but war is forever won by getting there firstest with the mostest, and that they did. And they would have gotten nowhere, had they not been supplied by US-made 2.5 ton trucks - having those in large numbers was arguably the fulcrum around which that campaign tipped.

Quote:
As a result more Americans were needed to apply pressure on a strong German front in Vichy France.
The Wehrmacht was on its heels in the East when the Western Front opened.

Quote:
The UK was able to provide air support with the Royal Air Force but ground support was more limited. We had to do a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of infantry, munitions, strategy etc.
There was more Commonwealth infantry on D-day than there were Americans. The US most certainly provided the logistics - the Red Ball express - and that is of course what wins campaigns. As for the strategy, Operation Overlord came from the staff of someone most Americans don't much like to hear of: Montgomery.

As for strategic bombing: It was never as efficient as promised. Pre-war thinking was that the bomber would always get through and that massive bombing would have an immediate and devastating effect, but neither turned out to be true. The bombers suffered massive losses, and their precision was measured in miles. However, once you're fighting a war and have a massive investment in a heavy bomber force, you can't just shrug and say "Damn, didn't work as planned". You do what you can with what you have. And if you have a weapon that can only be expected to hit a target the size of a city, well - then you send them out to bomb cities.
 
Old 12-21-2018, 11:46 AM
 
30,514 posts, read 15,642,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
I've often wondered how history would have played out if The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere had actually lived up to its lofty name. What if the Japanese had treated the people in the lands they conquered far better than the occupying Western powers had? At the very least, it would have made the various western colonial powers real motives for "liberating'"their colonies from a Japanese takeover painfully obvious to everyone.

But of course the Japanese weren't actually interested in co-prosperity, or in ending colonialism. They just wanted to change who was doing the colonizing. And that turned out to be a fatal miscalculation for them.
It's an interesting thought experiment, isn't it?
 
Old 12-21-2018, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
9,424 posts, read 3,205,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
I happen to agree, but it is a segment of your fellow citizens that have always had a problem with Dreseden and Bomber Harris.
I don't know anyone who had a problem with Dresden or Bomber Harris.

The Germans were hitting London with V-bombs at the same tme as we launched bombing raids.

V-1 flying bomb - Wikipedia

V-1 flying bomb facilities - Wikipedia

V-2 rocket - Wikipedia

V-2 rocket facilities of World War II - Wikipedia
 
Old 12-21-2018, 11:54 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
74,354 posts, read 65,996,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solooriginal View Post
So, I read on Quora that a lot of British people are angry with America for nuking Japan during WW2. They consider it a war crime and a crime against humanity but how come the British didn't stop America from nuking it? Why didn't the British threaten to declared war on America, raided the compound the nukes were being made and then saved Japan?

This is the same with Vietnam and Iraq.....

Were you angry with those? Yes.
Were you opposed to those? Yes, definitely.
Then why didn't you stop it? ....
Seriously? Do you think the Brits would have threatened to declare war on the US over that? Do you really think the US would have paid any attention to such a threat from the Brits, their steadfast allies in WWII?

Reality-check time.
 
Old 12-21-2018, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
5,135 posts, read 3,280,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
I happen to agree, but it is a segment of your fellow citizens that have always had a problem with Dreseden and Bomber Harris.
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Not a crime simply because if ze Germans hadn't bombed / flattened Coventry (among others) then this wouldn't have happened, simples!
I do find it disingenuous that people who rail against the "immorality" of Dresden never seem to mention Coventry. Why is it bad when we did it but not worth complaining about when the other guys did it? (And did it first, I might add.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
If we wanted to kill people we could have attempted to hit the vastly more populated Kyoto.
I don't disagree with your point, but specific to Kyoto, it had been exempted from all bombing due to its historic and cultural significance. (Does anyone think that, had the roles been reversed, Japan would have spared, say, Boston, due to its historic significance? Neither do I.) By the end of the war, pretty much the only major Japanese cities left intact were Kyoto and Kokura, with the latter one still standing only by a healthy bit of good luck. (It was the alternate target for the first atomic bombing, but the primary target -- Hiroshima -- was hit instead. It was actually the primary target for the second bombing, but the city was shrouded in smoke when the B-29 arrived overhead, so it diverted to the secondary target, Nagasaki.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
I've often wondered how history would have played out if The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere had actually lived up to its lofty name. What if the Japanese had treated the people in the lands they conquered far better than the occupying Western powers had? At the very least, it would have made the various western colonial powers real motives for "liberating'"their colonies from a Japanese takeover painfully obvious to everyone.

But of course the Japanese weren't actually interested in co-prosperity, or in ending colonialism. They just wanted to change who was doing the colonizing. And that turned out to be a fatal miscalculation for them.
The end result may have been the same, in that most people don't enjoy being conquered by someone else, no matter how benign their conquerors might be. But in the shorter term, the peoples of the "Co-Prosperity Sphere" may have seen the Allies less as liberators and more as imperialists who were sore at losing their territories and eager to get them back for their own selfish ends. So I suspect the war might have dragged on for somewhat longer, and the geopolitical situation in East and Southeast Asia might have been much less favorable to America in the post-war period than much of it ended up being. Not to mention, the Japanese armies that were tied up fighting in China and elsewhere would have been freed up to face the Allies head-on.

It's often forgotten that one of Japan's goals in going to war was to remove Western imperialism from the Pacific region. And on that score, they were successful.
 
Old 12-21-2018, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
9,424 posts, read 3,205,884 times
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Bomb Sight Project maps where bombs fell on London during World War 2





 
Old 12-21-2018, 12:09 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
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Curtis LeMay intentionally created firestorms in Japan, killing over 100,000 people in one Tokyo raid. March 9-10, 1945 is considered the single most destructive raid in history.
339 B-29's came in at 8000 feet (can you IMAGINE?!) and dropped napalm. And the Japanese still didn't quit!


Insanity reigned supreme in Japan until August when the A-bomb was dropped.
LeMay knew that if we didn't win, he was going to be tried for war crimes. Born in 1906, LeMay was only 37 years old when he took command and did what needed to be done. I am a fan of LeMay.
 
Old 12-21-2018, 12:39 PM
 
11,475 posts, read 17,017,095 times
Reputation: 5653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
I don't know anyone who had a problem with Dresden or Bomber Harris.

The Germans were hitting London with V-bombs at the same tme as we launched bombing raids.

As I said before, I agree and have no problem with anything the RAF or the USAAF did during WWII.

However, the Bombing of Dresden has always caused some debate and controversy in the UK.
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